25 Years After 9/11 — Federal, State & Local Counterterrorism Hearing — September 16, 2026

06:21I now recognize myself for an opening statement. 25 years ago, our nation was forever changed. The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 represent the worst act of terror on U.S. soil in American history, claiming 2,977 innocent lives.

06:39Thousands of first responders ran toward danger, launching the largest emergency response mobilization in New York City history. More than 400 of these first responders made the ultimate sacrifice that day, and many more survivors and responders have passed or continue to suffer due to 9-11 related illnesses.

06:55As a New Yorker representing a district forever marked by this tragedy, I carry the responsibility to never forget with me every day. Just last week, I led members of Congress to Ground Zero to commemorate the 25th anniversary of September 11th alongside the families of those we lost, first responders, and members of the 9-11 community.

07:15We must ensure an attack like 9-11 never happens again. Following the attacks, Congress established the Department of Homeland Security to unify federal security efforts. The bipartisan 9 Commission released its final report which included 41 recommendations to address identified vulnerabilities and strengthen U national security In its wake our nation undertook a robust effort to increase information sharing and coordination among federal, state, and local law enforcement.

07:42The federal government also worked to provide essential support for these entities as they prepare for, respond to, and work to prevent terrorist attacks across the nation. security successes in the last two decades are due in large part to this close coordination.

07:58As the committee tasked with conducting oversight on the Department of Homeland Security and the only standing House committee established in response to 9-11, we recently released a report evaluating America's progress in strengthening our homeland security posture and outlining more than 20 recommendations to better support DHS's no-fail mission.

08:11The committee recommends improving information sharing processes across federal and local law enforcement partners, stabilizing grant grant administration and strengthening core preparedness and incident management capabilities. Committee also recommends continuing funding for the Emergency Management Performance Grant and ensuring sufficient funding for special events in advance.

08:36As the only member of the Intelligence Community required to share intelligence with federal and local partners, the DHS Office of Intelligence Analysis plays an essential role in ensuring law enforcement has the information needed to identify and counter emerging threats.

08:48The Committee has prioritized efforts to reform and refocus INA to ensure it is still meeting the moment for our state and local partners. Federal resources also play a critical role in this collective security mission.

09:02The fiscal year 2026 DHS Appropriations Bill Congress provided nearly $500 million for the State Homeland Security Grant Program, nearly $600 million for the Urban Area Security Initiative, Nearly $100 million for the Transit Security Grant Program, more than $90 million for the Port Security Grant Program, $300 million for the Nonprofit Security Grant Program, more than $80 million for Operation Stone Garden, and more than $300 million for the Emergency Management Performance Grant.

09:33And which I will say, this was an increase of what we saw in 2025, which was a decrease, which I know a lot of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle on this committee were not thrilled with.

09:46And I hope all the witnesses today will speak to the importance of these grants. As our report states, transparency and collaboration are critical to the successful implementation of these grant programs. committee will continue to conduct oversight of FEMA's guidance and processes to ensure their success.

10:03Our witnesses are here today to discuss the importance of these grants and the role federal resources play in helping state and local partners prepare for and respond to threats. Even with this success, the Homeland Security mission is never finished.

10:14Terrorists have continued to evolve with modern technology, utilizing new tools and tactics to recruit, inspire, fundraise and plan attacks like never before, from artificial intelligence to robotics and drones. The dedicated men and women who serve our communities every day, including those here today, are on the front lines of an evolving public safety mission.

10:35While those who wish to do us harm only need to get it right once, these public servants must succeed every single time. As we continue National Preparedness Month, I am grateful for the opportunity to welcome former Arlington County Fire Department Chief Schwartz and former New York City Fire Department Commissioner Nigro before the committee today.

10:56I also appreciate the opportunity to receive testimony from three current officials who serve the people of New York and Washington DC metropolitan area. I want to offer my gratitude to all of our witnesses for collective service.

11:07I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about the progress made over the last two decades and where Congress can provide further support for state and local counterterrorism efforts in metropolitan areas. I now recognize the ranking member, the gentleman from Mississippi, Mr. Thompson, for his opening statement.

11:24Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Good morning and welcome to our witnesses. Thank all of you for being here. This month marks 25 years since the deadliest terrorist attacks in our nation's history. In some ways, September 11, 2001 seems like it was just yesterday.

11:47We remember the horrors of hijacked planes flying into the World Trade Center, smoke billowing from the Pentagon, and debris strewn across a field in Pennsylvania. We recall the heroism of first responders who ran into burning buildings, the pleas of family members looking for loved ones, and the grief of mourners following the attacks.

12:14But a third of Americans have been born since 9-11, and millions more were too young to have any memory of the attacks. With the passage of time even though those who lived through the tragic day may have forgotten some of the lessons it taught us As a member of this committee since its creation, I believe the most critical of these lessons is that we have a shared responsibility to keep our homeland safe while protecting our rights and freedoms as Americans.

12:51Unfortunately, the president has forgotten that lesson and maybe he never learned it. Recently, after being told that he could not speak at the 25th anniversary ceremony in New York, he attended the Pentagon observance where he dozed off in a chair as the name of the victims were read.

13:14Even worse, as president, Trump has dismantled national security programs, stood up in the wake of 9-11 and weaponized the Department of Homeland Security against the American people. He has also politicized counterterrorism grants to communities, withholding them from blue states to punish them for opposing his policies.

13:40His administration tried to slash by 86 percent Homeland Security grant program funding for New York, which remains the biggest terrorist target today. Fellow courts stepped in to restore that money, but DHS still owes New York $87 million meant to fund critical counterterrorism efforts.

14:07Last week, New York Department of Homeland Security and Emergency Services wrote to FEMA, which administers the grant asking when the money will be restored, saying, and I quote, this prolonged uncertainty impedes New York's ability to plan and allocate resources for critical counterterrorism efforts.

14:30Governor Hosho also weighed in on the safety threat, saying the president continuing to withhold the fund amounts to defunding the police. the NYPD is slated to receive the lion's share of New York's allocation.

14:41On that, I agree with Governor Hochul Without these funds New York is more vulnerable to other terrorist attacks President Trump is playing politics not just with New York money but with the security of our country As the committee established after 9 to prevent another large-scale attack on our country, we have a unique responsibility to ensure that Americans never forget.

15:15That includes all Americans, even the president. Make no mistake, Democrats will hold the administration accountable for its actions, which dishonors the 9-11 victims and distracts from current threats facing the homeland. This morning, we are absolutely honored to have with us leaders who work on duty the day of the attack, as well as those currently in those roles.

15:46I hope to discuss with them the counterterrorism efforts of the last 25 years, as well as what first responders need to prevent, prepare for, and respond to persistent security threats. Please know that we stand with you, the brave men and women you represent and your colleagues across the country.

16:09Thank you again for being here for what you do every day to help our communities and protect our homeland. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

16:19Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. Today's hearing will consist of two panels, with the first panel providing opening statements sharing their experiences responding to the attacks on 9-11, as well as the efforts undertaken by the respective agencies to improve homeland security resilience before and after.

16:36The second panel will discuss how this work has continued over the last 25 years and will take questions from the committee. I would now like to formally introduce our witnesses for the first panel.

16:46Mr. Daniel Nigro is the former commissioner of the FDNY, serving in this role from 2014 to 2022. Commissioner Nigro served as the FDNY's chief of operations during 9-11 and responded to the World Trade Center.

17:00Following the death of the Chief of Department Peter Ganci on 9-11, Commissioner Niro was appointed Chief of the Department where he oversaw the rescue and recovery operation at Ground Zero. Commissioner, very happy for you to be able to join us today and thank you very much for your service.

17:18Mr. James Schwartz is the former Chief of the Arlington County Fire Department. On 9 Chief Schwartz led the unified command effort for the Department response to the Pentagon attack Chief Swartz has previously served on the Advisory Council for the Interagency Threat Assessment and Coordination Group and the Joint Counterterrorism Assessment Team at the National Counterterrorism Center.

17:38As a member of the International Association of Fire Chiefs, Chief Swartz also chaired the Association's Committee on Terrorism and Homeland Security and was designated the lead for their DHS FEMA Reform Task Force. I thank you, Chief, also for being here today and for your service on that day.

17:56Pursuant to Committee Rule 8C, I ask that the witnesses please rise and raise their right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before the Committee on Homeland Security of the United States House of Representatives will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God.

18:16Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Please be seated. I recognize Commissioner Niro for his statement.

18:26Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to start by thanking you and the members of this committee for having this hearing and for your diligence in this very important task. The members, past and present, of the FDNY appreciate it, as do their families.

18:44Terrorism as defined by the Department of Homeland Security is nothing new to the City of New York. From the 1864 attempt by eight Confederate operatives to burn a large area of the city, which ironically accelerated New York's establishment of a paid fire department, now the FDNY, to the Wall Street bombing of 1920, which killed 38, wounded more than 100, to the Mad Bomber of the 40s and 50s, anti-war bombings and the FALN of the 1960s and 70s, to the attacks on the World Trade Center in 1983 and 2001.

19:25In the 25 years since 9-11, terrorist attacks in New York City, albeit on a smaller scale, have continued, some involving groups, others involving individuals. The weapons used have varied from improvised explosive devices to firearms, knives, hatchets, and vehicles.

19:45What weapons will be used in possible, or should we say probable, future attacks? Drones, chemical, biological, cyber attacks, etc. must be constantly planned for. The challenges are immense. While the fire department has always stood ready to protect life and property in New York City and has responded to acts of terrorism throughout its history, its focus on terrorism has been somewhat minimal prior to the attack on the World Trade Center in 1983.

20:17In February of that year, terrorists parked a van filled with explosive material in the garage under the towers. A long fuse was lit, allowing the perpetrators time to escape. The terrorist's intention was to bring down one tower into the other, causing the collapse of both and the death of thousands.

20:37While this detonation caused considerable damage and numerous deaths and injuries, the towers survived. Following this attack and the extensive response and operations of the city's fire and police departments, planning and preparations in our city increased.

20:54efforts were undertaken to better prepare both agencies for future acts. In 1996, the Mayor's Office of Emergency Management, OEM, under the effective leadership of the late Jerome Hauer, was created. OEM was tasked with coordinating the response of city agencies to all forms of emergencies.

21:16OEM planned interagency training and drills and helped improve coordination and communication. While OEM proved effective in improving the overall response and coordination at emergencies, in September of 2001, it was still a work in progress.

21:36The morning of September 11, 2001 began, much like today, as a brilliantly clear and bright late summer day. In the hour between 8 and 9, FDNY members and firehouses throughout the city were in the midst of a shift change, with members preparing to head home while others were relieving them.

21:57At headquarters, the work of the day began with the department's leadership engaged in the business of managing the busiest fire department in the world. FDNY Headquarters is located across the East River from the World Trade Center in the Metro Tech Complex of Brooklyn, between the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges.

22:16I was chief of operations, second in command to chief of department, Peter Ganci. Our offices on the seventh floor had windows facing the towers Just before 847 I entered my office when I heard a loud noise and felt the building shake At that instant Chief Gansey shouted out Dan look out your window A plane just hit the World Trade Center.

22:40We did not know what type of plane it was or why it had struck the building. We later learned it was American Airlines Flight 11, a large Boeing 767 recently taken off bound for California with its fuel tanks full of jet fuel.

22:59Chief Gansey and I responded together over a miraculously traffic-free Brooklyn bridge. From the bridge, we had a clear view of the impact area, seeing what appeared to be 10 floors of intense fire, 1,000 feet up.

23:15I said two things to Chief Gansey, although I'm sure he was already thinking the same thing. This will be the worst day of our lives, and we cannot put out that much fire on the upper floors of the building.

23:29Chief Gansey immediately transmitted a fifth alarm, bringing 250 department members to the scene. We arrived and established our command post on West Street at the foot of the North Tower. Units commanded by Battalion Chief Joe Pfeiffer were already inside the tower.

23:47At 9.03, a loud noise caused me to look up just as United Airlines Flight 175, another 7.67 bound for California, traveling at over 500 miles an hour, struck the South Tower to World Trade Center, floors 77 to 85.

24:07Now our somewhat impossible task had doubled in size. The two tallest buildings in New York City had been attacked by terrorists, were seriously damaged and burning out of control. A second fifth alarm was transmitted eventually, followed by a third fifth alarm.

24:26An unknown number of people were trapped at or above the damaged floors in both towers, and many others below the stricken floors were having difficulty exiting the buildings. The impact of the hijacked airliners caused the elevators, all but two serving lower floors, to become damaged and inoperable.

24:45The standpipe systems designed to allow water for firefighting to be pumped to the upper floors had also been damaged and presumed to be inoperable as well Although as I stated earlier I believed extinguishment at this point was beyond our capacity that did not mean we would just stand by 911 calls from occupants trapped in the towers answered at our dispatch center were unimaginably frantic and heart-wrenching.

25:14All our dispatchers could do was to tell the callers to hang on, we are coming for you, and we were. elevator service. Reaching the upper floors was exceedingly difficult and time-consuming, but we would do our absolute best to climb to the impact area and try to reach those trapped.

25:34In the South Tower, we know from members' communications captured by recording devices that our members had reached the impact area and were preparing to advance up one partially obstructed stairway when suddenly that communication ceased.

25:51At 9.58.59, the South Tower collapsed. Total collapse took only 11 seconds. While we were prepared for and expected localized collapses within the towers, this was not anticipated, certainly not at this stage in our operation.

26:08Chief Gansey issued the order for our members to remove themselves from the North Tower. Many were able to get out, while others were either too high up or assisting occupants. The North Tower later collapsed.

26:19Chief Gansey and First Deputy Commissioner William Feehan, while assisting in the rescue of members in the South Tower, were struck by debris and killed. We discovered their bodies later that afternoon. The collapse caused damage and numerous fires in surrounding buildings and vehicles damaged our water supply system.

26:46Our surviving units and other units brought in were tasked with finding ways to deal with that as well as searching for survivors. As the afternoon wore on, World Trade Center 7, a 47-story building just across Vesey Street, began to worry us.

27:03We ordered our members out of the building and cleared a collapsed zone, and at 5.20 That afternoon, seven world trade collapsed. At some time that day, we learned that American Airlines Flight 77 had struck the Pentagon and United Airlines Flight 93 crashed near Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

27:24A total of 2 innocent people were killed on that day 2 in New York That includes 343 members of the fire department, 37 from the Port Authority police, and 23 from the New York City police.

27:43184 people died at the Pentagon and 40 in Shanksville. Books have been written about the day the data follow, but I'll try to briefly sum it up. The entire area that was the World Trade Center looked otherworldly.

27:56Fires burned for 99 days beneath what remained. While the first week to 10 days was referred to as a rescue operation, few people were rescued and none after September 12th. After the rescue effort became a recovery operation, work continued until May 30th of 2002.

28:18FDNY members, their counterparts in the NYPD and PAPD, as well as many others, remained on the scene searching for the victims' remains 24 hours a day, seven days a week, until that final day.

28:35To date, of the 2,753 victims at the World Trade Center, the remains of roughly 40 percent have not yet been identified. We're re-prepared for the attack on the World Trade Center on September 11th.

28:52As John Miller, a former deputy commissioner at the NYPD, is quoted as saying, using commercial airplanes as missiles being flown by trained pilots wasn't on anyone's frame of reference. That being said, all of us on the federal, state, and local level have made great progress in studying, planning, and thwarting current and future terrorist attacks.

29:16At the fire department, we've always reviewed our actions following fatal fires, complicated operation and unusual responses. What did we do right? What mistakes were made? What could we have done better? And what needs to be changed to make us even better?

29:32No response in our history had more fatalities and was more complicated and unusual than what I had just summarized. We believed it would be helpful to ask an expert to help in our review and critique, So we contacted the consulting firm McKinsey & Company and they agreed to work with us.

29:50Some important suggestions contained in the final report of the review have made us a better department, more able to meet future challenges. One is rooted in the assistance we received from the U.S. Forest Service immediately after the attack.

30:06When I first heard that they were coming to assist us, I was quite skeptical. What do forest fire specialists have to do with our urban environment? The Forest Service manages events that may last for weeks and months.

30:19FDNY generally puts out the fire, returns the property to the owners or the NYPD, and gets ready for the next alarm. The operations at the World Trade Center site would be ongoing, and the Forest Service taught us how best to manage a long-term incident.

30:36Afterwards, we decided to form our own incident management team, the IMT, now consisting of over 300 trained members. When I returned to the department in 2014, I found the IMT to be one of the biggest improvements.

30:52They'd helped manage many events here and across the country. Our response to COVID crisis is a perfect example. They were invaluable. It was suggested that we needed a more robust HAZMAT capability. Five HAZTAC engine companies were created with highly trained members, giving us the ability to respond to and mitigate multiple incidents.

31:15A new bureau was created to ensure we were prepared for the challenges of the ever-changing world. The FDNY Center for Terrorism and Disaster Preparedness works with our federal, state, and city partners, staying up to date with current threats and planning and conducting response scenarios and drills.

31:35Members of this unit have high-level security clearance, as do ranking department members who are regularly apprised of threat environments. Many other large and small adjustments were made to our department, such as the addition of two state-of-the-art fireboats, drones, robotics, improved communications, changes in our counseling program and family assistance, as well as a World Trade Center health program, monitoring all members impacted by their response to the attacks and their work in the day after.

32:08We certainly have depended upon and continue to depend on federal funding that has made these improvements possible, and we certainly look forward to continued support. Thank you for all that you've done and for conducting today's hearing.

32:26Thank you very much Commissioner Naira for sharing that with us and for your statement I now recognize Chief Schwartz for his opening statement

32:35Chair Mungarino, Ranking Member Thompson, thank you all very much for conducting this hearing today and listening to some of our thoughts about the events of 25 years ago. September 11, 2001, 184 people lost their lives at the Pentagon, 59 on the aircraft, and 125 in the building.

32:58They ranged in age from three to 71. And as we reflect on that day 25 years ago, our first thought should be with those families who lost loved ones and recall that they don't need an anniversary to remember those lives cut tragically short.

33:16It's also useful to observe that but for the fact that the area where the airplane struck the building at the Pentagon that day was virtually empty, otherwise the losses at the Pentagon would have been significantly greater.

33:29We also cannot forget the heroes of the Pentagon that day, the military and civilian members alike who acted with great courage and resolve to save their coworkers, in some cases reentering the burning building multiple times to guide colleagues out through fire and smoke.

33:43The 9-11 Commission, in their landmark report, observed about the response to the Pentagon that while no emergency response is flawless, the response to the terrorist attack on the Pentagon was mainly a success for three reasons.

33:55First, the strong professional relationships and trust established among the responders. Second, the adoption of the incident command system. And third, the pursuit of a regional approach to emergency response. None of what the Commission observed was the result of happenstance or luck.

34:13For decades before 9-11, public safety leaders from around the Washington metropolitan area, actively supported by elected officials through the Council of Governments, collaborated on issues that are often hindered by parochial approaches to government services.

34:29Mutual aid agreements were struck with the knowledge and expectation that when events overwhelmed the locality, it could depend on neighboring jurisdictions to come to its aid. Additional plans for mass casualty events were developed and tested.

34:41The ability to communicate across public safety radio systems so that responders from different jurisdictions and professions could communicate with one another had been achieved by several jurisdictions and was well on a way to completion for the remainder of the National Capital Region However incomplete the 9 Commission observations about the Pentagon response their framing provides an opportunity to consider important factors for both successes and shortcomings but also a way that we have applied those lessons over the last two and a half decades and where we should concentrate our attention now.

35:10Relationships and trust. The success of emergency service organizations is the result of many efforts, not all of which come from within the organization. Public safety leaders today should recognize that the boundaries that separate professions or jurisdictions are useless during a novel crisis.

35:32The investment in developing such relationships can help to grease difficult operational challenges, especially when they present conflicting priorities. Developing trusted relationships and mutual understanding before the crisis will better aid those that the system was created to serve.

35:47The attack on the Pentagon made clear that no one agency had all the resources, experience, or expertise to bring the event to a successful conclusion. Acknowledging the interdependence among dozens of agencies and professions was essential, and developing relationships to work on common understanding before the crisis is a major factor in successfully managing any complex incident.

36:10One of the strongest and most valuable partnerships on 9-11 was between the FBI and the region's fire departments. 9-11 tested for the first time the 1995 presidential directive that places the FBI as the lead law enforcement agency for all acts of terrorism.

36:26How would that work in the face of a major disaster had not yet been tested? Fortunately, we in the NCR had established a strong relationship with the FBI's Washington field office and their national capital response squad.

36:38The NCRS had participated in regional exercises as recently as three days before the attack. And on the morning of the attack, we're training with all of the fire department's heavy rescue squads from around the metropolitan area in preparations for large scale demonstrations that we were anticipating later that fall.

36:58The Bureau's first agents arrived at the Pentagon minutes after the first fire department units arrived and collaborative decision-making through unified command was initiated immediately. Because of our investment in building a professional relationship and mutual understanding, there was no battle for turf.

37:14Both the Bureau and the Arlington County Fire Department knew that success would only occur if we worked together and applied the knowledge and respect that we had gained from each other over the previous three years Incident Management The 9 Commission observed that the use of the Incident Command System was another positive factor at the Pentagon ICS was implemented by the first arriving unit four minutes after the airplane struck the building, and Unified Command, including the Arlington County Fire and Police Departments and the FBI, was established eight minutes later.

37:47This was before the federal government incorporated Incident Command as national doctrine through through the National Incident Management System in 2004. Under NIMS, ICS is a standardized process for managing a crisis across jurisdictions and professional disciplines.

38:02It's hard to imagine a better framework that unifies response agencies under shared objectives, common terminology, and that is scalable to the size and complexity of an incident. Fire and EMS use ICS every day for every incident.

38:17Unfortunately, NIMS has not gained universal acceptance as evidenced by too many after action reviews in the last two and a half decades that have identified a lack of effective incident management as a leading cause for suboptimal outcomes.

38:32After more than 20 years as a national doctrine, it's time to assess where we are with NIMS, make improvements to the doctrine as necessary, assess how we teach it, and stop pretending that because we ask grant recipients to certify that they use NIMS, that we are any closer to a truly national approach to incident management than we were 25 years ago.

38:55Regionalism. Lastly, the 9-11 Commission observed the pursuit of a regional approach to response as an asset. That pursuit began long before the attack. Prompted by the 1973 collapse of a high-rise apartment building that was under construction, fire chiefs in Arlington, Alexandria, and Fairfax began collaborating on automatic aid.

39:16In 1975, they signed the NOVA agreement that essentially dropped jurisdictional boundaries for the purpose of allocating resources. The closest units are assigned to a request for service, regardless of jurisdiction. The benefits are faster service to those in need and faster backup and increased safety for our responders.

39:37Over the years, additional jurisdictions have been added to the agreement and the region further benefits from standardized operating procedures and complete communications interoperability. Last year, the NOVA agreement celebrated 50 years of continuous operation.

39:53The Northern Virginia localities are also members of the Washington Metropolitan Area Councils of Government. COG is used as a forum to collaborate on regional problems that are not confined by jurisdictional boundaries, and is overseen by a board of elected representatives from each of the 24 member jurisdictions, creating legitimacy at the policy level.

40:13The region's fire chiefs have long had a committee and several technical subcommittees at COG. Through NOVA and COG, the chiefs have recognized that they are building capacity that goes beyond routine emergencies, but that by using such a system every day, builds strength, furthers collaboration and trust, and can be exploited when the big one comes.

40:33Soon after the 9-11 tragedy, there was a discussion about developing a national system of response. This was in recognition that for some incidents, even a region as large as the NCR still need outside assistance.

40:46The International Association of Fire Chiefs developed a fire service mutual aid system to improve interstate mutual aid. The effort later transitioned to the national mutual aid system. Its purpose is to address some of the concerns with the Emergency Management Assistance Compact, where because of the bidding system, the closest available resources are often not deployed, thus delaying support during a crisis.

41:10Additionally, local and fire EMS departments must wait years for financial reimbursement after deploying to a major incident. We urge Congress to examine the issue of interstate mutual aid to ensure that the closest resources are deployed efficiently during a disaster.

41:26I just wanna take a moment to say that those of us in Arlington in the National Capital Region, and dare I speak for the entirety of the American Fire Service, stand with our brothers and sisters and have stood for 25 years, our brothers and sisters in New York, for their tremendous losses on that day and the losses that they have suffered as a result of occupational diseases since then, something that we too here in the National Capital Region are experiencing every day.

41:50I wanna thank the committee for taking the time to hold this hearing, and I look forward to the continued conversation on these important topics.

41:59Thank you, Chief Schwartz. On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank you both for your service to the United States during 9-11 and the years after. And I appreciate your willingness to participate in today's hearing.

42:11The first panel has concluded. The committee will suspend while the second panel takes their seats.

43:55. Introduce our second panel.

44:18First, Mr. John Donnelly serves as the chief of the Washington, D.C. Fire and EMS Department, a role he has held since 2020. Chief Donnelly joined the department in 1992, served as a battalion chief, division commander of special operations, homeland security, and apparatus.

44:37He also served as a member of the command staff and head of the department's professional development bureau. Chief Donnelly is a member of the International Association of Fire Chiefs, and Homeland Security Committee, and the Fire Chiefs Committee for the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments It quite a resume Thanks for being here Second we have Mr Thomas Correio serves as FFDNY Chief of Fire Prevention Prior to his current role Chief Correio served as the FFDNY's Chief of Training and Chief of Counterterrorism and Emergency Preparedness, as well as Fire Marshal, Lieutenant, Captain, and Company Commander Battalion Chief and Deputy Chief.

45:23Finally, we have Mr. Greg Erie, who serves as the Chief Secretary Officer for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, a role he's held since 2022. Prior to joining the Port Authority, Mr. Erie served in the Air Force for eight years and is a veteran of Desert Storm, after which he joined the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

45:47During his 22-year FBI career, Mr. Erie served as Special Agent in Charge of the Bureau's New York and Newark field offices, which we all know is an incredibly busy office. Most recently, Mr. Erie served as Vice President and Chief Security Officer at the Anti-Defamation League.

46:06I want to thank all three of you for being here today in remembrance of that solemn day on 9-11. With that, I'd like to start with Mr. Donnelly.

46:16Thank you sir. Chairman Garbarino, Ranking Member Thompson and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. As a new sergeant responding back into the city on September 11, 2001, it is an honor today to represent Mayor Muriel Bowser, the government of the District of Columbia, the men and women of the District of Columbia Fire and Emergency Medical Services Department as you assess our nation's preparedness 25 years after the attacks of that day.

46:51I also want to acknowledge the leaders on the first panel, individuals who carried forward the response, recovery, and resilience missions in the immediate aftermath of 9-11. Their work laid the foundation for the homeland security architecture we rely on today, and they were mentors to me.

47:11perspective of the National Capital Region. The 9-11 Commission report found that although command and control challenges occurred during the Pentagon attack, the overall response was effective because the National Capital Region had already embraced the formal incident command system An emphasis did increase after the 1982 Air Florida crash The 9 attacks accelerated regionalization fundamentally transforming how public safety agencies coordinate, train, communicate, and share intelligence.

47:45Over the past 25 years, DC Fire and EMS has applied those lessons to every major category of incident we face, from mass casualty events, transit and transportation accidents, large scale responses at federal facilities, maritime and waterway emergencies, even complex aviation incidents, such as the mid-air collision over the Potomac.

48:09Each of these reinforcing the value of unified command, interagency planning, and seamless information sharing. As a result, the department has evolved from a primarily operational response agency into an integrated partner in the regional Homeland Security Planning Complex designed to meet and scale the complexity of the National Capital Region.

48:33We work closely with district, regional, and federal partners to maintain a shared operating picture and unified response framework. As a non-law enforcement agency in this process, we often serve as the community's voice The security and event plans are developed, reflected, and reflecting this sustained collaboration across jurisdictions that recognize terrorism and other threats that do not respect borders.

49:01Our current preparedness. Today's threat environment is broader and more complex than ever, and our preparedness rests on several pillars. First, interagency coordination and regional planning. We participate in large-scale planning through the district preparedness system and the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments.

49:18Second, intelligence and information sharing. Fire and EMS relies on the Washington Regional Threat and Analysis Center, the Metropolitan Police Department, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation for Shared Intelligence. Programs like the United States Fire Administration-led Fire Service Intelligence Exchange and DHS Suspicious activity reporting have strengthened that integration.

49:49Third, operational readiness. Our members train continuously, and they respond to conventional and unconventional threats, including complex coordinated attacks. In addition to daily refresher training in our firehouses, our operational employees log tens of thousands of hours of continuing education each year.

50:11Fourth, technology and communications. Investments in modern communications platforms, including emergency alerting systems, that strengthen situational awareness across the NCR. secure interoperability of radio and data systems through investments in land mobile radios radio caches and FirstNet support rapid information sharing among responders partners and the public so where can we use federal support while the last 25 years have brought enormous progress there are several areas that remain critically dependent on our federal partnership following the events of 9-11, Congress recognized the critical need for robust intelligence and information sharing systems, not only at the federal level, but also among first responders who are the earliest on the scene when disaster strikes.

51:01To fulfill this vision, resources are urgently needed to rebuild the fire and EMS intelligence capability that was lost with the shuttering of the Fire Service Intelligence exchange, whether by reestablishing federal mechanisms that support the FSIE or funding local participation in something like the Joint Counterterrorism Assessment Team, these actions will ensure the local authorities have the intelligence support they need to plan for the hazards we will face.

51:33We need a commitment from Congress on bandwidth, satellite, and data transfer standards. Our operations are reliant on technology. We need to preserve terrestrial bandwidth for our first responders and plan for the future use of satellite communications through our regulatory process.

51:53And we need stable and flexible grant support. The Urban Area Security Initiative and similar grant funding is essential to the fire service's ability to adopt new technologies and practices. This funding also provides training against national hazards.

52:09hazards, it funds exercises, cybersecurity readiness, and regional interoperability that cannot be funded locally. Proposed changes to 2 CFR 200 and the recent threats to major fire service grants and the National Fire Academy introduced instability and undermines our ability to plan for the long term And finally the National Incident Management System As it was envisioned by Homeland Security Presidential Directive 5, has not emerged as we had hoped.

52:43The existing system needs a review and update to see where it can be improved. Finally, I want to acknowledge Mayor Bowser's support for the DC Air Safety Act. Nearly 25 million passengers travel through Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport every year, and the 2025 collision over the Potomac made clear that our airspace is operating beyond safe limits.

53:06Chairman, 25 years after 9-11, protecting our communities from terrorism remains a no-fail responsibility. Our success at DC Fire and EMS is a result of working with federal, state, and local partners to ensure our responders have the tools needed to meet evolving threats.

53:24Thank you for the opportunity to testify today and I look forward to your questions.

53:30Chair now recognizes Chief Correo.

53:38Good morning. My name is Tom Correo, Assistant Chief for the New York City Fire Department. Thank you for the honor and privilege of providing testimony today. 25 years since the horrific events of September 11th, the greatest and most meaningful way by which we can respect the memories of those we have lost is by analyzing the lessons of this tragedy and applying our best solutions so that we may preserve life and property as part of our life safety mission.

54:06September 11th, 2001 should have been a special day for my family as we were looking forward to seeing my oldest son, Brian, off through his first day of preschool. I was off duty that day, and as I became aware of the terrible events unfolding, the anticipation of this happy event quickly transferred to disbelief and the need to get to my command to assist in any way possible.

54:31In the 25 years since September 11, 2001, the fire service has evolved in our analysis of threats as well as developing prepared strategies. One of the main themes is the adoption of an all hazards focus and improving core tools such as situational awareness, developing a common operating picture, and interagency coordination that apply to all emergency events This has become particularly meaningful as funding allocations have decreased and made the efficient analysis of risk even more vital Comprehensive risk analysis is predicated on the fire service continuing to have a seat at the intelligence enterprise table, not only as a consumer but also playing a vital role in the development of threat assessments.

55:13At the FDNY, we have been very fortunate to build strong intelligence sharing relationships with the New York City Police Department, as well as the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force. This supports the FDNY's counterterrorism efforts, particularly our very own Center for Terrorism and Disaster Preparedness.

55:36This center regularly develops intelligence products that are transmitted across the entire nation to share insights as well as lessons learned. We thank the Congress for the many years of grant funding that support has led to the creation and improvement of many FDNY response resources such as a fire department's operations center, a marine firefighting regional assets, unmanned aerial vehicle and robotics program, and incident management teams.

56:02These comprehensive capabilities have proven their tremendous value at fires and emergencies over the last 25 years, as well as most recently within the context of the the 250th anniversary and the FIFA World Cup.

56:20It is these types of occasions that the first responder resources that you all have supported come together in a synergistic Homeland Security enterprise. This Homeland Security enterprise is vital today to attain comprehensive preparedness.

56:34It provides the base to address both traditional threats, such as the use of improvised explosives and fire and smoke as a weapon, but also dynamic cybersecurity threats, digital tools that can undermine public safety messaging by nefarious actors, and potential negative impacts related to artificial intelligence.

56:55So what are our highest priorities for the future and what recommendations can we offer today? Commit to continued dialogue with the first responder community so that we can jointly support the vital need for Homeland Security funding.

57:09Continue to build upon intelligence-sharing mechanisms between law enforcement and the first responder communities. Advocate for increased investment in Homeland Security education to fully prepare the next generation of professionals. Establish multidisciplinary working groups to study the Homeland Security preparedness and continuity of operations impact of artificial intelligence as well as opportunities Establish a multi working group to study the effectiveness of the National Incident Management System and the Incident Command System with regard to unified fire service and law enforcement operations.

57:46As you can see, in the 25 years since September 11, 2001, there has been much progress within the fire service in regard to Homeland Security and emergency preparedness, but also much to accomplish. Our commitment to our communities to continually build partnerships and tirelessly work towards achieving the highest state of preparedness has never been stronger.

58:02That is our unwavering commitment to you. Thank you very much for the honor, privilege to trust you today.

58:11Thank you, Chief Correo. By the way, Commissioner Naira just said, that we at FDNY couldn't have a better person testifying here today. So I thought that was a pretty good compliment I wanted to share with you.

58:24I now recognize Mr. Eary for five minutes to summarize his opening statement.

58:28MR. Good morning, Chairman Garbarino and members of the committee. My name is Greg Eary, and I am the Chief Security Officer at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. Thank you for the opportunity to come here to talk a little bit about the Port Authority's preparedness and security operations.

58:41Port Authority facilities have the unfortunate distinction of being targeted multiple times by terrorists. In 1993, a truck bomb exploded beneath the North Tower, killing six people and injuring more than 1,000. On September 11, 2001, the Port Authority lost 84 people, 37 of which were Port Authority police officers.

59:00That remains the worst single-day loss of life of any police department in the United States. Since then, we have lost numerous officers to 9-11-related illnesses, and there are many more who are still in the fight.

59:11This tragic legacy has shaped the Port Authority's unwavering commitment to safety and security. This is evident as security accounts for roughly a quarter of both the agency's personnel and its operating budgets. Furthermore, since 9-11, $1.8 billion has been invested in capital projects to harden and strengthen our transportation facilities.

59:30Twenty-five years later, the transportation sector continues to be an attractive target for terrorism. This threat is particularly acute for the Port Authority, given the scale and significance of the critical transportation infrastructure we operate, including the nation's largest airport system, the busiest bus terminal, and the most traveled bridge in the world.

59:49Since 9-11, the Port Authority has built a risk-based, multi-layered security program designed to protect its employees, customers, and transportation assets from asymmetric threats. This approach includes risk and intelligence-informed assessments to identify threats, prioritize vulnerabilities, and guide capital security investments.

60:09Capital hardening and protective design programs, including tunnel hardening, bridge and structural strengthening, bollards, and other vehicle threat mitigations. Security technology, including an extensive CCTV system with enhanced analytics, access control systems, perimeter intrusion detection, license plate readers, CBRN detection capabilities, drone detection, interoperable radio communications, and continuing evaluation of cutting-edge technologies.

60:3424-7 security operation centers and trained contract security officers provide an additional layer of observation, behavioral recognition, access control, and incident reporting. And I'd be remiss if I did not mention our very highly trained police department of more than 2,100 officers with high-visibility counterterrorism teams, emergency service unit capabilities, explosive detection canine teams.

61:01PAPD also participates numerous federal, state, and local law enforcement task forces, including the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Forces in both New York and New Jersey. We also have a dedicated Office of Emergency Management that leads incident coordination, training, and full-scale exercises with regional first responders using the Incident Command System and the Unified Command principles.

61:21We have a robust cybersecurity program, including a 24-7 cybersecurity operations center, recognizing that physical and cybersecurity are increasingly inseparable in modern transportation. We utilize the Department of Homeland Security's Safety Act program as an independent third-party validation of security programs and technology.

61:42Port Authority facilities and programs that have received these Safety Act recognitions include the World Trade Center complex itself, the George Washington Bridge, LaGuardia Airport, our PATH train servicing New York and New Jersey. This year served as an extraordinary real-world stress test for our security protocols, driven by a series of concurrent major events across the New York and New Jersey region.

62:03The simultaneous hosting of the FIFA World Cup, the Sailforth Operation, and the America 250 celebrations successfully drew an influx of over 1.2 million additional visitors to the area. Last week, we gathered to honor and commemorate the 25th anniversary of 9-11.

62:20This high-profile event was attended by the Vice President of the United States, the Governors of New York and New Jersey and all former living Presidents and First Ladies along with many other dignitaries Flawless interagency coordination and unparalleled security measures ensured this historic event was among the most protected and successful on record Success of these security operations demonstrates what 25 years of investment and partnership have produced, a security enterprise that is integrated, intelligence-driven, technologically advanced, and operationalized across jurisdictional boundaries.

62:54Congress has been an essential partner in building and sustaining our security capabilities. We respectfully ask that Congress continue to maintain its support in several key areas. Increased federal funding of Homeland Security Grant programs, the Transit Security Grant Program, Urban Area Security Initiative, Port Security Grant Program, and other federal funding have supported the Port Authority Counterterrorism Programs, police training and equipment, emergency preparedness exercises, cybersecurity, access control systems, facility hardening, and all our other critical security initiatives.

63:23These investments allow state and local partners and transportation agencies to maintain capabilities that protect nationally significant infrastructure. Empower states to work with federal partners to perform advanced mitigation against malicious drones. Transportation agencies need timely solutions to support the appropriate response to unauthorized drones impeding transportation.

63:46We continue to support the DHS Safety Act program. Independent validation helps organizations measure security programs against best practices and promotes the adoption of effective anti-terrorism technologies and services. Protect and strengthen intelligence sharing and joint task force capabilities.

64:04The ability to move timely, actionable information across federal, state, local, and transportation partners remains one of the most consequential reforms of the post-9-11 era. Since 9-11, the Port Authority has achieved significant, measurable progress across every layer of our security enterprise.

64:20Our facilities are more resilient, our law enforcement capabilities are highly specialized, and our intelligence moves faster. Technology provides tools that did not exist a generation ago. Most importantly, federal, state, and local agencies collaborate in ways that have become routine rather than the exception.

64:36On behalf of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, I want to thank the committee and our congressional delegation for their continued support of programs and partnerships that help us protect our employees, customers, infrastructure, and the region we serve.

64:49Thank you, Mr. Ehrie. Members will be recognized by order of seniority for their five minutes of questions.

64:54Now I gonna start recognizing the former chairman of this committee gentleman from Texas Mr McCall for five minutes Thank you Mr Chairman I appreciate you doing that I vividly remember that day as we all do A horrific day, I think.

65:12For us, it's living history. For many now, it's textbook history in schools. And after 9-11, I became the chief of counterterrorism national security in the Western District of Texas. And I became a student of counterterrorism, then became chairman of this committee, worked very closely with NYPD and the New York Fire Department as well.

65:37And I remember, you know, 1993, you know, we had a pre warning, Ramzi Youssef, trying to bring down the World Trade Center. And it was originally in a plot to hit 12 synagogues simultaneously, symbolizing the 12 tribes of Israel.

65:59He modified his plan to take down the symbol of economic power, the World Trade Center, one pillar, one building toppling over the other. As you all know, he came actually relatively close to achieving that goal if the bomb had gone off closer to one of the pillar beams.

66:22But then he escapes, meets with his uncle Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He develops the Bajoinka plot. I knew the Diplomatic Security Corps officer who arrested him. And eerily, they found baby dolls in his apartment stuffed with chemical explosives to take these baby dolls onto airplanes to blow them up.

66:46The Bajoinka plot also being 12 airliners, symbolic of the 12 tribes of Israel. He conspires with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on 9-11. The idea that planes could be turned into suicide missions was something that was not imaginable, and it was a failure of imagination.

67:09nation. We saw planes hijacked but not turned into cruise missiles targeted at buildings, in this case three symbols of power economic military and what in Arabic called the building of laws which was the United States capital The threat was aviation then I believe it also aviation today I chair the Special Events Task Force on the FIFA games, and the number one focus were drones and the impact that drones could have.

67:45I just got back from Ukraine, saw the amazing drone capabilities they've developed in this war against Russia, this conflict. But the modern aviation threat 25 years later is my question for the three of you.

68:03We worked very hard and the chairman passed the Safer Skies Act to help federal, state and local to protect these events. But I'd like for the three of you to comment now on what I consider to be an old threat being aviation, but in a more modern capacity, and that is the threat of drones.

68:26Perhaps I could start with Chief Donnelly and work my way through.

68:31For drones bringing a new threat to us, and we don't clearly understand it, meaning the evolution of drones and what their capabilities really are and really aren't leaves us in a spot where it's hard to prepare.

68:50We are preparing that these weapons can do things in our community that could be delivered by a car or by some other method. So we prepare on that. I think the second part of the challenge is awareness of drones.

69:07As you know, here in the District of Columbia, the airspace is extremely restricted and the ability any drone that's up should be official but sometimes there's so many different agencies with them up here it takes a while to sort out whether or not it's an official one um and that isn't a local thing that's a federal thing that's all the different federal agencies putting them up so here in the district i think we need um we are working with our partners in the secret service with the capitol police with the metropolitan police department but you have a lot of federal

69:39buildings, including United States Capitol. I know that, you know, there are federal agencies assigned to that, but I do think coordination, like with the Safer Skies Act, the intent behind that

69:51should apply. Yeah, and that's where we want to be, is we want to be coordinated so that when a drone's up, we know if it's good or bad. I'm confident that we can respond to the threats that they bring, but the coordination, the awareness of what their real capabilities are would be helpful.

70:10Nice, Chief Correo.

70:13Thank you very much for the question. First of all, thank you for the support. It was grant funding that allowed the FDNY to really build a very robust drone and robotics program. program. It is a program that's come to quite significant fruition.

70:25We use it a lot in our fire and rescue operations on a marine environment. And we have actually been a leader working with a lot of our counterparts to actually develop policy. I think from our perspective, Our biggest concern is the threat of even just a drone over a special event, over a large area, mass panic.

71:01We readily identify, you mentioned Ukraine, that these drones can be weaponized, and we're concerned about chemicals, biologicals, other dispersion methods. And I agree with Chief Dallinley. We're still trying to understand what is the real threat factor, right?

71:19How effective would it be? But in many ways, I'm very concerned about the fact that we could have a mass panic situation in something like the New York City Marathon, any of those particular areas.

71:36So I think on a couple of levels- On the Boston Marathon, that was-

71:39Boston Marathon, all these different-

71:41I know my time's easy.

71:42I know the times are not, but I do want to let Mr. Erie, because you have the airports and everything also answer this so yeah and thank you for that and by the way firehouse 10

71:50is the most dramatic uh experience and seeing the flag that flew on 9 11 just always blows me away

71:57when i see it but uh i guess mr veery no sir i i agree with your assessment we like my colleagues we're watching this and the technology is outstripping our ability to identify and mitigate the technology and certainly what we're seeing over in Ukraine is the perfection of drone warfare and that can be extended out across the full spectrum of threats we're going to face everywhere from criminal a delivery system all the way up to a catastrophic counter-terrorism attack and as you well know from your work with FIFA it was our biggest fear that there was going to be something that came out in a drone that we could not either identify and we certainly have very limited capacity to mitigate that threat if we did identify it As the chairman asked, we are extremely in the aviation industry.

72:43See this over the airports. It was years ago in Scotland that a drone basically parked itself over the airfield, didn't do anything, but it stopped all transportation. The airport had to shut down. That threat is still existent today.

72:55We would not have a way to take that drone down unless it was a kinetic piece. We're working very closely if there's something this committee could do, especially on the federal level, a regulation they could put out there, but we need to identify the right technologies to counter this threat.

73:10Very helpful. Gentleman goes back in. I recognize the ranking member, the gentleman from Mississippi, Mr. Thompson.

73:17Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, let me say to the witnesses, for some of you, glad to see you again. But I think there are some things that concern me. Now, I'll try to hit the list as fast as I can.

73:35Right now, DHS is cutting resources to communities. That includes the State Homeland Security Grant Program and the Urban Area Security Initiative. How would cutting these programs hurt your agencies and the communities you serve?

73:57Chief Donnelly, we'll start with you and go down the line. I think cuts to these grant programs can be catastrophic

74:05to our ability to adapt to new threats and adapt new technology, just like everybody else, right? Our budgets are tight, our local budgets. Our local budgets cover the day-to-day operations we do, but for new threats like terrorism that are national in scope or come from outside of our areas, it's very hard for us to invest enough to understand if we're doing something right.

74:33So for instance, interoperable communications and how we integrate broadband and the land mobile radio and satellite, that's a lot of investment and we use grant funds to invest in things like that. New protective gear, same thing.

74:52Chief Currio So the cuts to grant funding it has the ability to really turn back all the progress that we made Of course the whole national preparedness initiative from prevention to protection response, mitigation, recovery, incident management teams, Center for Terrorism and Disaster Preparedness, our maritime response capabilities, all these are predicated and have been built significantly based on our grant funding, as well as addressing the threats that are coming down the line potentially, such as continuing cybersecurity as well as artificial intelligence.

75:36So the grant dollars, we use them to the fullest extent possible, and we use them not only locally but regionally and nationally. So very important. Mr. Horry.

75:47I'll echo what both my colleagues said. watching the situation very closely. It's sort of a good news, bad news at the port. We do receive these grants. We've seen it slightly go down, some of the amounts.

75:56We haven't seen our 26 amounts yet, but we can balance that out with our budget and what we use to make sure we're covering our critical infrastructure. However, we do look at our colleagues in the FDNY and the NYPD, who, as I mentioned in my opening statement, we absolutely depend on them to be that outer shell for us and to work cooperatively to make sure we can maintain these levels of preparedness.

76:22Thank you. FEMA has cut its workforce by 5,000 employees. How does that FEMA cut impact your department?

76:39For the District of Columbia, we've had a very busy summer. And it's been a little bit of an odd summer in terms of the amount of federal involvement. But in terms of FEMA's cuts, we also have the National Capital Office of Coordination.

76:59So we've had extra resources dumped into the region to help us plan for Fourth of July, the Indy race, the things on the mall. What we haven't had is a large scale disaster where we would rely on FEMA's expertise and that.

77:16So I don't know the effect of the cuts yet. I know this summer we had additional resources. I'm sure they came from somewhere else and we were okay.

77:24But I worried about what a disaster looks like So I echo Chief Donnelly comments We got tremendous support doing FIFA 250 the Naval Review, but I am concerned with our disaster preparedness and response if we should have a major incident in New York City or the tri-state area.

77:47So that would be my major concern. I'll stay here.

77:51I agree with both my colleagues. We deal with FEMA on a daily basis. nature of our transportation business, especially with weather events that come in. We've been fortunate enough in our region, New York and New Jersey, that we haven't had a major large-scale event that has come up, but we are watching the restructuring and the cuts and depend

78:07on FEMA. Thank you. Each one of you all talked about information sharing and the need for all individuals to be able to have access to that information in a timely manner. DHS is proposing to disband the fire service intelligence exchange and emergency management and response information sharing and analysis center, which is critical to information sharing.

78:45Does the administration terminating these information sharing mechanisms concern you?

78:52Absolutely. The Fire Service Intelligence Exchange is the only way for fusion centers and fire service leaders to meet across the nation to share intelligence about upcoming evolving threats. It's where we would get a lot of our information about drones, for instance, to the earlier question.

79:13T. I agree. The Fire Service Intelligence Enterprise is a great platform, particularly for unclassed official use only information, but it's still vital for our preparedness. And the best part about it is we're able to collaborate, we're sharing what is the so what?

79:31How do we build capabilities off that? So that would be very, very dramatic if that was cut. Let's hear it.

79:38Well, I certainly tilt certain my two colleagues with the fire service. I can say from my expertise, any degradation and intelligence sharing is harmful. We learned that lesson in 9-11. It has to be open, collaborative, and at the highest speed we can share it.

79:53You're back.

79:54Gentleman yields back, and I recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr. Lola, for five minutes of questions.

80:00Thank you, Chairman. Thank you for hosting this important hearing. And thank you to our witnesses for your service, your experience, your testimony on how to conduct counterterrorism in the right way 25 years after 9-11.

80:13I remember that morning quite vividly. I was a 23-year-old young naval officer, just returned home from a deployment. I was aboard my ship, Pearside in San Diego. I, like many Americans, watched on TV that horror, but I thought about it as a New Yorker.

80:30I thought about it about the firemen, the cops, the EMTs, the civilians who rushed towards the buildings to help people. In the coming days, we grieved the 2,977 lives lost, but we were grateful for the first responders' efforts to save 17,000 people.

80:49In the months afterwards, our military sought justice for America and brought many people in Al-Qaeda to that justice. And then we as a government started to get to work as to what went wrong that day and how we could prevent another 9-11.

81:11I want to ask a couple different questions about you all, and I think one of the things is a failure of imagination that day. In the military, we were training for a USS Cole-like incident.

81:23We were training for something that might come out of the water and attack us from that way. And I think that we should acknowledge as a government, we failed to have the imagination required that day to anticipate, as former Chairman McCaul said, civilian airliners being used as cruise missiles to attack the core of our country and to attack our people.

81:46So the fundamental question, I think, before us today is, have we built the right system to imagine, identify, and confront the threats today before they become the tragedies of tomorrow? And you all have some great experience, and we're going to benefit from your testimony here today as we consider policies and budgets and whatnot to protect the next 9-11.

82:07And Mr. Erie, I want to expand upon that word imagine, but before I do so, you were the special agent in charge of intelligence at the New York Field Office. And before 9 our government had pieces of the plot but failed to put them together My question sir is today 25 years later whose responsibility is it to anticipate and imagine the next attack And how can that person or people ensure that their analysis gets to the right people empowered to act?

82:44It's a great question, sir, and thank you for your service and your continued service. It's probably something that we look at every day, and I can say it's not new. we are in a better place.

82:52Because I agree with you, I was serving at the time. We did not think outside the box. We have taken steps to fight that complacency. And I'm talking about our intelligence agencies at both the local, state, and federal levels and try to continue doing that.

83:08It's an exercise that's not easy because once you think, oh, we've achieved it and we've thought of everything, there's something else you have to push forward to. But as to who's responsible for that individually, I think it's all of us.

83:17I think it's anybody in the professional security business, in the intelligence business, this is your number one priority. And I was just in an event surrounding 9-11 where your very question was the topic of conversation amongst a couple hundred of my colleagues.

83:30How do we not be complacent? How do we keep pressing forward? But I think the oversight that committees like this one provides, and the leadership and the guidance and the funding, will ensure that we can continue to look forward.

83:41I think that's the right answer, sir, and that your colleagues to the right of you are nodding their heads up and down, so I take it they agree with

83:48us as well. Let's move on to identify. So we have to imagine first and we have to identify what that threat is. And a modern day threat may be an American who radicalizes, who doesn't do so, doesn't communicate outwardly, can't find him on his phone, can't find him on a website.

84:05What's the modern day equivalent of a name on a watch list? And what's the tripwire for somebody like that who may never actually cross that tripwire?

84:15And that's, again, a solid question going forward. It's difficult, and it's gotten more difficult, because the more we have—we rely on technology, some of our traditional methods of identifying people, we slowly let degrade to that point.

84:31And there are folks right now that actively study, how do I stay off that radar? Plus, you combine that with the speed. We used to call that the flash to bang, where the intercession from the FBI or other security forces while that planning process was happening.

84:46If you look at the classic, the 9-11 plotting, months and years, it gave us opportunities, sometimes failed opportunities to identify and put the plot together and mitigate it before it happened Now we talking with the advent of AI technology and others whatever turns that switch in an individual and decides they going to do something and you heard about some of the attacks in previous testimony it a matter of minutes And how do you intercede in that and identify that person?

85:09It's an incredibly challenging piece of the puzzle. The intelligence, especially at the federal level, is providing that piece, but it's something that net gets more and more porous

85:20as the technology expands. Thanks. In a future round, Chief, I hope that you get to, Chief Correo, tell us a little about your experience with your shop that you, for the Center for Terrorism and Disaster Preparedness, and how you use people in that flash to bang analogy, how people are integral into that process, whether it's firemen or cops or somebody's seeing something on the ground, how that helps inform policymakers to imagine differently and to react differently as well.

85:48I'm out of my time, so I want to give back to the chairman. I just want to plant that seed for you to think about it later.

85:54I'll let him use some of my time to answer that. I now recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Correa, for five minutes of questions.

86:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I first want to thank our witnesses for being here today. And like Mr. Lalota said, all of us can remember where we were on that horrible day, dastardly attack on our country.

86:12And I was in the state senate and soon became very aware of terrorist attacks, trying to prevent them, trying to protect our communities. And like Mr. Le Lodos said, before the attack, I think different federal agencies had information.

86:35They just didn't put together the picture. Could have possibly been prevented. That's why Homeland Security was created, to get rid of the silos, to make sure that everybody shared the data to get that picture.

86:54I'm from Orange County, California. Target-rich environment. Disneyland, Anaheim Angels, Anaheim Ducks, very densely populated. We have big events, a lot of attractions, big crowds. This is something we worry about, concern us on a daily basis.

87:21Since 9 Homeland done a really good job of making sure they don scorn us But one area that we still have to work on is domestic terrorism We lost a lot of lives domestically from self-inspired lone wolves, individuals that just decide to go after our population.

87:43American citizens. Like Mr. Lalota said, having a clear picture, all the information. This is the issue that concerns me because right now, as this administration cuts Homeland Security preparedness grants, local grants, fusion centers, that's where a lot of the local information is being processed and filtered to 9-1-1 to Homeland to make sure we can play defense effectively.

88:15But gentlemen, I'm going to ask you, do you feel like you have enough support from the feds? Do you feel like you have communication? A lot of my locals say that it's a one-way street when it comes to sharing information and communicating.

88:33Chief Donnelly, are you getting enough information from the feds when it comes to this kind of preparedness? So that's a really good question.

88:45I have two answers for it. One of them is I don't feel like the policy is in place to support the information sharing that we need, but that on an individual agent level with our partners, that we have workarounds, and I fear workarounds, because when something can be missed, if there's not a good solid process for it.

89:17Something may not be shared because it's something really scary when that's probably the most important thing to share.

89:25So people won't give you the bad information because it's just...

89:29I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that... No, our day-to-day interactions at the levels of my chiefs, the plan with the FBI and the Secret Service and the Capitol Police and MPD every day, One-to-one during events or during planning, I think we get absolutely the information we need.

89:48But we don't know strategically what we're missing because I don't believe the systems are in place to share it in a meaningful way with the fire service emergency managers in particular, maybe our other critical infrastructure partners, because there's no understanding on the security intel side or little understanding of those sectors.

90:10This is a major concern, of course, and, you know, these are scary words that are coming out of you because we can't afford another 911 and we're cutting cyber homeland security, cyber team is being decimated.

90:28This is just not good, especially when we've got conflicts around the world and people have very motivated around the world to come after us. So I would ask you to work with the committee to come up with some concrete suggestions how we've strengthened the defense of Americans in this country.

90:48Chief Corral.

90:49I thank you for the question. In New York, we are very fortunate. We have permanent members of the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force. We have weekly meetings. We do have unprecedented access that we normally, we certainly didn't have before September 11th.

91:08However, I think what occurs sometimes because things become investigative, that that has limits in terms of sharing that information with the fire service. And I think the one thing that we're always concerned about is we're worried about consequence management.

91:26We don't need sources, methods, any of that. So I agree with Chief Donnelly. I think the mechanisms have to be in place to be able to share the information that we need to be able to respond effectively, protect our members, protect the public, as well as providing more security clearances for members of non-law enforcement agencies.

91:47Chairman, can I have another minute for Mr. Rathwee to answer that question?

91:52I'll be very quick, because I do agree, and it's something when you see, and sir, you mentioned domestic terrorism, international terrorism, on a federal level, DHS, FBI, all the intelligence agencies, the threats are not lessening, they're increasing, and their bandwidth is a bit of a concern.

92:09Now, we have at the local and state level picked up some of that load, and we provide some information, that back and forth. But when you talk about cuts, it's not that the threats are going away, and who is going to address that from that federal level?

92:23Thank you very much, gentlemen.

92:24Much appreciate you The gentleman yields back I now recognize the gentleman from Arizona Mr Crane for five minutes questions Thank you Mr Chairman for holding this hearing today on what we done and what we

92:36continue to do 25 years after 9-11. I also want to thank the witnesses for being here today and I really do appreciate your service. This committee is very good at remembering September 11th and were good at discussing technology, the workforce, and the funding needed to defend this country.

92:57We remember the firemen walking up the stairs. We remember the passengers of Flight 93. We remember nearly 3,000 innocent Americans who went to work that morning and never came home. I remember it in my bones.

93:11The week after those attacks I enlisted, I spent 13 years in the Navy, and I went to war against men who believed they had a religious duty to kill us. What this committee and this country are not good at remembering is why those men did it.

93:24They did not fly those planes into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon because they were poor. They did not do it because America needed another fusion center briefing or a better TSA line. They did it because they believed they were obeying God.

93:42That is a very uncomfortable sentence in this town. I am not under any illusion that most people in this room or in this country will heed a warning from me or from anyone else willing to say it out loud.

93:54We live in a nation that can no longer tell what a woman is and that still treats communism and socialism as sophisticated ideas instead of the graveyards they produced. If we cannot get those basics right, I do not expect a sudden appetite for an honest conversation about the motivation of the attackers.

94:17But I will say it anyway, because the dead deserve more than a moment of silence and a press release. The men who murdered our people were not improvising. They were reading. Quran 9.5, when the sacred months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, and sit and wait for them at every place of ambush.

94:41Quran 929, fight those who do not believe in Allah or the last days, nor consider unlawful what Allah and his messenger have made unlawful, nor adopt the religion of truth from those who are given the scripture until they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued Quran 8 I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve so strike them upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.

95:06Quran 8.39, fight them until there is no more fitna and the religion is entirely for Allah. Quran 47.4, when you meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks until when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds.

95:28And from the most trusted collection of the prophets saying, Sahih al-Bakari 25 and 2946, I have been ordered to fight the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

95:42If they do that, they have saved their lives and property from me except for the rights of Islam, and their reckoning is with Allah. Those are not internet memes. They are canon. Millions of Muslims reject that reading and want no part of a political project to put Sharia over civil law.

96:06That distinction matters, and I will continue to say it. The attackers of 9-11, Boko Haram, ISIS, and the networks that still inspire lone actors in this country, do not reject that reading. They treat it as a command.

96:22Pretending otherwise is not compassion, it is malpractice. While we argue about tone, the doctrine is not theoretical. Britain now has estimated 30 to 85 Sharia councils judging marriage, divorce, and the status of women.

96:38They have no formal standing under British law, they do not need it. A parallel system is already there. In Nigeria, more than 22,000 Christian civilians were killed between late 2019 and 2025. That is not a farmer, herder clash.

96:52It is jihad with a body count. Here at home, we see more candidates running for public office who support these beliefs. We can keep talking about fusion centers. We can talk about TSA lines and border security.

97:05All of that matters. I've spent years on this committee fighting for it and will continue to do so. But until this body is willing to have an open conversation about the root cause, the Islamic teachings that still instruct violence against the unbeliever.

97:21We will keep disrupting plots after the ideology has already done its work We will write another after action report We will hold another moment of silence We will congratulate ourselves for remembering the buildings and we will not keep the American people safe.

97:37Thank you. I yield back. The gentleman yields back, and I recognize the gentleman from

97:43New York, and he represents the site of the World Trade Center. Mr. Goldman, five minutes.

97:50Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our witnesses for being here. It was good to see you last week as well as the chairman at the 25th commemoration of that dreadful day. I was less than a mile from the World Trade Center and I think everybody has a story, but it has left an indelible mark on so many and was the cause, the sort of derivation of this committee and the Department of Homeland Security.

98:16And so keeping our country safe, keeping New York City safe, is absolutely paramount and very happy that in the last 25 years we've not had anything like that and that's a testament to the great work of so many in law enforcement and in our intelligence services.

98:41The importance of New York City to the counterterrorism effort effort should not be minimized. And I don't say that just because I represent New York City and I know the chairman also represents suburbs of New York City.

98:55It is the number one target for terrorism. We know that. It is also the hub of so much of our commerce, our transportation, our livelihood, our economy. And so it's not a parochial thing, parochial reason why the federal government has committed over those 25 years to a significant amount of money and grants to fund so much of the work that you do, that the Joint Terrorism Task Force does.

99:39And I want to just emphasize that that money, that expertise, is not just applied to New York City. And in fact, the FDNY, Port Authority Police, NYPD, use that expertise to help train law enforcement all over the country and help protect other cities when we get information in.

100:09And so this is what leads me to a point of concern that I have. And I wanna just note that the chairman has been a terrific leader in ensuring that we not only remember 9-11, but that we take care of those who were there, who were first responders, who were survivors, victims' families.

100:38And I was very proud to join with him in ensuring that the World Trade Center Health Program will be fully funded indefinitely so that everyone suffering from 9-11 related illnesses, and there are now three times as many people who have died from 9-11 related illnesses, as died that day, can ensure that they get healthcare.

101:03But Mr. Chairman, I'm gonna ask you to work together on one more thing, because this administration has not provided and transferred the full amount of grant money for the counter-terrorism fund to New York City.

101:21In September of 2025, unfortunately, the Trump administration tried to cut 86% of the funding for federal counterterrorism and Homeland Security grants with no explanation through opposition of many, including the chairman. Some of that money was restored.

101:42It did also require a lawsuit, but the administration has only provided about 100 million of the $187 million that they have promised. And so I'm gonna ask the chairman and I'm going to ask my colleagues on the other side of the aisle for to continue our bipartisan work to make sure that our homeland can remain safe.

102:10And in my last minute, I would love Chief Kerou to ask you, why are those funds so important? How are they used? And why is it essential that you and the rest of our counterterrorism services and enforcement get that money Thank you very much for the question I think it because the work that we do

102:36in the FDNY in New York City, it impacts in a very real way. See our Marine units, they're a regional asset. They've gone as far as Baltimore, as far as Stanford. They are a regional asset, fire, rescue, counterterrorism special events.

102:55The other one I'd like to highlight is the Center for Terrorism and Disaster Preparedness. Again, a weekly intelligence product that goes to across the entire nation. We have a very collaborative relationship with the West Point Military Academy.

103:08We train their cadets in a very realistic scenario where they would be leading a National Guard element during a disaster. That's very realistic. We do that every single year, and that's based on our ability to develop a functional exercise for those cadets.

103:23So those are just two examples. So everything we do is from a collaborative nature. We try to make sure that whatever expertise or capabilities we develop, not only can it support local preparedness, but also regional, and in some ways really national preparedness.

103:42Yeah, and I think this money is essential, and I know my time is up. That there's no doubt that this money, In fact, the governor of New York has stated that over the last three years, New York has used these funds for at least 145 major arrest disruptions and leads across 10 different states.

104:04And so I would like to introduce by unanimous consent a letter from the Homeland Security and Emergency Services Commissioner of New York to the FEMA administrator asking for information as to why the $87 million has not been distributed and guidance as to when it will be.

104:27And Mr. Chairman, I hope that we can work together to advocate for this money.

104:31Without objection.

104:32And I yield back.

104:33The gentleman yields back. And I think when the secretary, former secretary, announced that the cuts were gonna go down to $30 million, is one of the reasons she is now the former secretary. and I'm happy that the 30 million did not take place.

104:51So with that, I want to now recognize

104:54the gentlelady from South Carolina Ms Biggs for five minutes questions Thank you Mr Chairman And thank you to our witnesses for your testimony here this morning I represent South Carolina's third congressional district, a district defined by small rural towns, the foothills of the Blue Ridge, and a fire service that is overwhelmingly volunteer based.

105:19My district also happens to host critical infrastructure that makes fire service situational awareness, a homeland security issue. The Oconee Nuclear Station sits in Oconee County. We border the Savannah River corridor near Edgefield and McCormick, and I-85 and I-26 run heavy freight and hazmat traffic straight through the heart of the district.

105:46When something goes wrong on the corridor, it is very likely a volunteer fire department that arrives first. While there is little doubt of the value of properly integrating the fire service into fusion centers into dense urban areas given the makeup of my district, I am also interested in whether a volunteer chief in say Westminster or Abbeville is able to get and contribute threat information that keeps their community safe and this country safe.

106:14Chief Donnelly, you have worked throughout your career to enhance the integration of fire services personnel into federal, state, and local intelligence sharing networks. As you note in your written testimony, fire and EMS personnel play an increasingly important role in identifying pre-operational terrorist activity.

106:37I believe this is no less true in the volunteer and rural context. In the years since 9-11 that you have spent working in fusion centers, to what degree have small, rural, and volunteer departments in districts like mine been embedded in the fusion center network, and can you speak to the value of integrating non-urban area fire services personnel?

107:10Absolutely. Thank you for the question and the opportunity to talk about that. It's, um, I think it's really important. I started my career as a volunteer firefighter They are absolute members of the community that matter and I think as we talked about it not only urban areas The plot could come from a rural suburban area They need to be included The inclusion is uneven.

107:39And what that means is that in some jurisdictions, Maryland has a very active fusion center that reaches across its state and to the volunteer fire councils, for instance, in each county and develops information sharing practices with them.

108:00I think that that model's great. The challenge is that if there's ever a budget cut, that's one of the first things that goes. And it isn't across the country that diffusion centers have funding dedicated to supporting the fire services.

108:17There are a lot of career departments across the country, but you're absolutely right that they're centered in urban areas and that information, the threat information about what explosives are, about biologicals, about the threats, are equally as important to our responders that are volunteers across their communities, across the whole country.

108:40So funding specifically inside fusion centers for fire service outreach would solve the problem you're talking about.

108:48Thank you very much, and thank you for your service. Given that a department protecting a nuclear facility or a rural highway hazmat corridor needs additional different threat information pertinent to those subjects, has the fusion center model adapted its outreach to reflect that, or is it a one-size-fits-all?

109:13I'll open that to either of you.

109:18So, we don't have a fusion center in the New York City area. The Center for Terrorism and Disaster Preparedness is the fusion center. We do, however, work closely with the New York State Department of Homeland Security and Emergency Services.

109:32It was a very unique program, and that is the Intelligence Liaison Officer Program. It reaches a fire and EMS representative from every county in New York State. Obviously, most are volunteer, including the county that I live in.

109:46So that becomes a point of contact to share information, to take feedback from them, what are their concerns in their particular district, what is the current threat intelligence, times even though it's at an unclassified or for official use only level, it's still enough to help them prepare or to address like what is their current capability, what is the capability gap, what is what they want to get to.

110:11In the volunteer service and I like Chief Donnelly started as a volunteer in Rockland County until I got my love of the fire service. It's very unique, it's very innovative in terms of like they have to share resources, it may have to be on a county level, such as the County Hazmat Unit, who really has to be able to address many, many threats that are out there, but with limited resources.

110:38So I think we need to build on that. We have a very collaborative relationship, the FDNY, with Nassau County and Suffolk County, both are volunteers. We actually have a robust mutual aid program with them.

110:47We train with them on an annual basis. So we try to support our volunteer brothers and sisters because they're all part of the same preparedness effort.

110:59Well, thank you for your service. And my time's expired, so I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

111:04General Lady yields back, and I recognize the General Lady from Illinois, Ms. Ramirez, for five minutes of questions.

111:08Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member. I really appreciate that we're holding today's hearing and to our witnesses for joining us. Thank you for being here and thank you for your service. As you've heard from a number of our colleagues, today we remember the 2,977 people who lost their lives at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, the thousands of people that were injured, and all those whose lives were changed forever.

111:36I want to start by expressing my deep gratitude to the first responders, who literally saved countless lives that day and in the days that followed, there is no doubt we owe a debt to those who served our country and our communities that dark day.

111:48As I think about that day, I also want to thank the thousands of Ground Zero cleanup crews. Many crews were staffed by immigrant women, including up to 6,000 undocumented New Yorkers. Luceli is an undocumented Colombian immigrant who cleaned up ground zero out of a sense of duty to the city that had welcomed her and she loves.

112:13Today, like so many survivors, responders, and community members, Luceli is actually battling breast cancer and respiratory disease. She among the tens of thousands whose health was severely compromised by the exposure to the tons of toxic debris the towers collapse released into the air Lucelli was just recently quoted in a recent NPR article In it she commented that the current DHS immigration enforcement campaign is a new pain on top of an old one.

112:43You see history is easy to forget. It's easy to lose sight of context, but both history and context are necessary for us to prevent creating new pains on top of old ones. I wish that I could say that from the history of 9-11, the way that we saw New Yorkers and Americans come together in each other's aid to take care of one another, to keep each other safe, have taught us something about how to prevent creating new pain on top of old ones.

113:11But today, the reality is that Luceli is living in fear and she's not alone. Millions of our neighbors, undocumented immigrants, Muslims, foreigners, activists, live in fear that the US government will target them, will detain them, and make them the enemy.

113:3225 years later, I think we can see that if we had learned that true safety is rooted in community and coming together, we would have built something that safeguards our human rights and our dignity, encourages collective care and mutual aid, recognizes that our safety is interconnected and it's also interdependent on the safety of our neighbors, we would have created true security and safety.

113:58But instead we created what feels like a weapon, the Department of Homeland Security. So today I want to remind us that we can stop creating new pains on top of old ones we can do that it's not too late for us to reimagine what a department that really dignifies humanity looks like that another world is impossible that's possible we can see that world in the James Sadroga 9-11 health and compensation act in the 170,000 pages released by Mayor Mondani and in the 9-11 immigrant worker freedom act introduced by Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez.

114:42We can choose now to affirm our commitment to every single person that's been impacted by 9-11 by choosing community over fear, care over anxiety and love over hate Today I think we at a crossroads as we think about the last 25 years and who we were on that day We can honor our shared pain our shared humanity our shared safety by healing old pain and creating new possibilities, a possibility of security and safety for all of us, where we center humanity in everything we do.

115:20That is the world in the future that I hope that this committee works towards. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

115:28General Lady yields back. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questions. Gentlemen, thank you all again for being here. And I do want to just follow up on some of the things that were brought up by my colleagues.

115:45The New York Joint Terrorism Task Force has done amazing work, and it's not just about New York. know for a fact it has stopped crimes and terrorist attacks from major to just sole actors across the country.

116:02So the work that is being done there and what has been built there has saved countless lives across the country and across the world just because of the information sharing that has been developed.

116:16think anything that the New York JTTF should be the gold standard for everyone, for what it has done. We've talked about the cuts to the Homeland Security grants that occurred. They're not as extreme as what was proposed after the NOFOs, but they were still cuts.

116:45And I know in both Suffolk and Nassau County, which I represent, their police departments took hits. And I'm happy that the fiscal year 26 numbers are higher than what was in 25. And in a bipartisan way, I think we're going to continue to push to make sure those numbers keep going up because this money does go directly to FDNY, NYPD, Port Authority, DC police.

117:13I know DC was also hit with those cuts. The top five cities were probably the top, that were proposed cuts to, but probably the top five that are, have the most terrorist threats So we gonna do our best because we don the goal of this committee my goal in Congress is to make sure that the 9 doesn happen So if those cuts continue that not good But it's not just about the cuts.

117:37The irregularities, and Mr. Ehrer, you brought this up, you know, with the budgeting that you all deal with, that you can probably make it up somewhere else, you know, if you have to, but you know, you need to be able to budget.

117:48The NOFOs last year were disaster that came out too late and gave no time. This year we're hoping it'll be better and next year and just from can you just can you all explain what you know what we could do to make to make things make your lives easier because once it's you don't get the money direct from us we give it to the states and they have to hand it down to you and they do their own formulas.

118:17So how could Congress run this program better? What could we do to help you all use this money in the ways that is needed to keep our community safe? Mr. Jerry, we'll start with you on that one.

118:30Thank you, sir. And I think you already have the solution to that. The earlier we can see that budget, the more continuity that is within that budget. As you said, we can make up for things, and we are, like many organizations right now at the Port Authority, in the middle of planning our 27 budget cycle, and we just don't know what's going to come in.

118:49So it makes it very complex. So again, some consistency would be great, or if it can't be consistent, let us know as early as possible what it will be so we can make those plans and work with our partner agencies.

119:01It's not just about the Port Authority. Having them having the same kind of, hey, we know what's coming our way gives us that ability to collaborate and cover those gaps. Mr. Craio?

119:13Yeah, I totally agree. Consistency, clarity, anything that's dynamic, it's going to be hard for us to plan to continue, especially in such a dynamic threat environment. So those parameters are very important, and that would be the biggest asset that we could ask of you to please help us to ensure that for our planning and our preparedness.

119:39Chief Donnelly?

119:41I agree with them, the clarity and regularity, but one observation from the beginning of these grants to now is there is a lot of direction in them, and there is a lot of cutout spending, and sometimes it's really hard to come up with projects that fit into the categories at the expense of other projects, it would be great.

120:01So that was my next question I was going to ask. Things change. I mean, we talked about drones and AI today. You have to prepare for future attacks, not what happened 25 years ago.

120:12So are there limitations in these grant programs now that don't allow you to spend this money on things you need now? And we're back 25 years ago, and it's limited to that. Are there things that you all need that you can't get access to because of limitations in this grant?

120:32What is that? I believe, and drones are a good example, we have a lot of money cut into drones. We have a lot of money cut into cybersecurity. Those are interesting categories when you look at them from money going into an emergency management environment that's law enforcement and responders, et cetera.

120:50We have to build relationships across multiple cyber groups, for instance, to come up with what a regional plan for cyber looks like, and it's sometimes hard to vision and explain. So I think a little less direction would allow us to focus more on it.

121:10I think we need to know the focus areas, but coming today to spend a lot of money on drones when we're anti-drone systems, when even the regulations around who can do anti-drone things are not clear, what am I spending money on?

121:26That's really the question.

121:29Anything from Chief Correo? You have anything to add? Either one, you're both gonna have a chance to answer. So whoever wants to go first.

121:38I'd like to pick up on that, and specifically with UAVs. The policy is, that's hugely important, right? That's our biggest issue, is not being able to mitigate or the limits of our mitigation. I know that's primarily law enforcement, but we need those capabilities.

121:56I firmly believe that we do have the subject matter expertise that with the funding we can implement and address our threats of tomorrow, today and tomorrow. I think one of our biggest concerns is a complex coordinated attack where we have something that maybe starts out looking at it as a cyber incident that maybe takes down our traffic management system, and then a terror incident that happens at the same time.

122:23We already red that we built that out but the funding helps us actually build the resources and preparedness to actually get ready for that type of event And I be very quick sir because I wanted to touch on what Chief Donnelly said

122:37I know it's a scary word sometimes, but the flexibility to be able to do that, because the constraints sometimes we may not be able to do what we need to do with that, but our partner is doing it so we could direct that somewhere else.

122:49It's not a one-size-fits-all, and I know that's difficult with the grants who are looking across the country where they go, but more flexibility would absolutely increase our capability.

122:57Thank you very much. Again, I want to thank you all for being here today and thank you for your testimony. I know that cities are growing, other cities become targets, but any terrorist, no matter what language they speak, they know New York City, they know Washington, D.C.

123:13You all do a great job. Those are the two top targets, I would think, and you all do a great job keeping us safe, and you have my commitment that we're going to do whatever we can in this committee to make sure you all get what you need to keep your residents safe.

123:34So with that, I yield back and I recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Walkinshaw, for five minutes of questions.

123:41Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you and the Ranking Member for convening today's hearing, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, leading us in our visit to the commemoration ceremony in New York. I was a freshman at New York University on September 11th, 2001, and I was a couple miles away, but I remember seeing the rigs headed down Broadway toward the World Trade Center and the courage of the first responders and the community members that day.

124:16And also on 9-11, first responders from across our national capital region rushed toward the Pentagon and they included brave members of the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department and Virginia Task Force 1. I want to share stories of two of those firefighters.

124:31Captain Scott Kraut was assigned to Fire Station 9 on the C-shift. He was off duty that morning. He lived about a mile from his station and while he was drinking his morning coffee saw the reports of the attacks on TV.

124:46Like so many firefighters and police officers who were off that day in New York in the National Capital Region he went to his station grabbed his gear and volunteered to respond At the Pentagon he helped to search hallways and conference rooms saw the devastation.

125:09The heat by then had melted the glass. The fires were still burning. What they hoped would be a search and rescue mission pretty quickly became a recovery operation. Despite the trauma of the day, Captain Kraut recently said he was incredibly grateful for the opportunity to serve in that way.

125:30Captain Kraut was a veteran, but the response that day included firefighters at the very beginning of their careers. Captain Katya Lansing was one month out of recruit school on September 11th. She was assigned to Station 30 in Merrifield, Virginia, and she remembers that day starting off kind of like any other.

125:51She was doing her morning chores in the station before she got called into the lounge where she and her colleagues watched the attacks in New York unfold. 10 minutes later, her crew was dispatched to cover an Arlington County fire station.

126:05And a few hours after that, they were assigned to go to the Pentagon. She remembers before leaving, she called her boyfriend at the time, now her husband, scared and anxious about what she would encounter.

126:19The plane had just struck the Pentagon. We didn't know whether there would be another attack or what would be waiting for them when they got there. When her engine reached the Pentagon, she and her crew went inside.

126:31They set up a hose line, tried to put out spot fires. It was her very first fire as a professional firefighter. She saw parts of the aircraft inside the Pentagon, the chaos, the hundreds of first responders trying to help.

126:47She was there for 10 hours, relieved at 3 a.m. She had worked at the Pentagon before she entered recruit school, so it was particularly poignant for her. 25 years later today, Captain Lansing continues to serve with the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department.

127:08Captains Kraut and Captain Lansing were at different points in their career on September 11th, but they shared the same commitment to service When their community and their country needed them, they answered their call.

127:20And that's representative of the courage of the thousands of first responders in the National Capital Region and in the New York Region on September 11th who went toward the danger And we here 25 years later I think we all agree honoring that service is more than just remembering it, although remembering it is important.

127:41We have to ensure that our first responders today have the training, the personnel, the equipment, and the resources they need when, God forbid, the next call comes. Chief Donnelly, first, thank you for your commitment to partnership in our region.

127:56I know Chief Butler deeply appreciates your friendship and partnership. And in your testimony, you mentioned the challenges in securing and affording apparatus. And I know that in the district recently, there have been challenges, perhaps recently, days where there was not a spare ladder truck, not a spare rescue squad, very few spare engines available.

128:26Can you talk us through what you're trying to do to address that and what we in Congress can do to help your department and others across the country with this apparatus crisis that I think we're going through?

128:36Thank you for the question, sir.

128:42The apparatus problem in the fire service is a national problem. It was already tight meaning like pre-COVID, the delivery times were predictable in just around a year from order placement. During COVID, we developed a backlog of probably 1,000 to 1,200 fire trucks alone, and the industry's been trying to catch up.

129:08What I think is important to understand about the fire trucks is there's not assembly lines for these. They come into a metal barn. They're built by hand all the way along. So they're non-standard.

129:24There may be some benefits of standardization if there's a way to figure that out. I think that what the country really needs is another factory, another fire apparatus manufacturer. So if there's a way to incentivize that, that would help in Congress.

129:42What we are trying to do is diversify our base. We traditionally bought fire trucks from one or two manufacturers, thinking that that helped us with standardization and things like that. We're expanding our base, so that's helping, but it hasn't produced any results.

130:00results yet, but we're hopeful that it will over the next few years. But we're still looking at four-year lead times on certain types of apparatus.

130:06Okay, thank you.

130:07I yield back.

130:08The gentleman yields back. I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green, for five minutes of questions.

130:13Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the ranking member. I thank the witnesses for appearing, and I would associate myself with the comments of Miss Ramirez, and would ask Chief Swartz, are you still here?

130:31Is the chief still here? He left. Well, in his absence, would someone kindly let him know that his commentary about the need to be reminded really struck a chord with me. He said that the people who are suffering, the family members, they don't need an anniversary to remind them, they're reminded every day.

130:58And it seems to me that many of the people who are suffering have latent injuries. You don't know it on the day of the event, a month after the event, a year after the event, latent injuries, cancer.

131:19This report indicates that people are suffering with cancer. prostate cancer. So these latent injuries have to be addressed too. And I'm very much concerned about this and how we approach not only preventing the incident and dealing with the immediate response thereafter, but this long-term help that people need.

131:49That really came to mind when he said this. What are we gonna do to help these people? Like the lady, Ms. Ramirez talked about. The lady, she's clean up person, goes into the area.

132:03Perhaps if we had had better intelligence about the atmosphere and the particulate matter that's in the air, then they wouldn't have gone in. I mean, at some point, you have to not only concern yourself with what happens immediately.

132:20And by the way, I commend all of you. I thank you for your jobs and what you done And I thank all of the people who rushed in the firepersons and the policepersons and protection But I want to just talk about this lady who a you know, she's a cleanup person.

132:37We have to help them too. They have to be on our minds. So these grant programs, I know about the 9-11 grant program that we established here in Congress, and I think that's a great thing.

132:52We want to make sure we continue with it. but I just wanna make sure that everybody benefits from it. Everybody. Doesn't matter to me how you got in this country. If you are suffering from that event, we have a responsibility to help you.

133:10And I wanna make sure that everybody benefits. Unfortunately, we have some people, I could say a particular person, but I won't, but they're more concerned about having their name put on a building than these people who are suffering.

133:33At some point, at some point, we have to realize that we truly have to put people above politics. And these people, many of them are suffering as a result of the politics. I looked at that 25 year report that was just produced.

133:52A lot of those people who are injured, their name should not be in that report. I mean, their illnesses shouldn't be in that report because it could have been prevented if we had the immediate response team that would look for things that could be hazardous to health in the long term, in the long term.

134:15So we've gotta somehow find a way to put together that response team too. It's a great response team that you have for immediate action, but we need someone to go in there, a team of people and say, hey, this is not safe for the cleaning crew.

134:30Or if they're going to come in, they have to have on some sort of uniforms or gear to protect them, so that they don't become a part of this, these persons with latent injuries.

134:41So my question is simply this, I just ask each of you to address the latent injuries and the people who may be suffering from these injuries and the lack of our being prepared to prevent these kinds of injuries as we are prepared to do other things And we doing them efficaciously but this is important too So Chief Donnelly would you be so kind as a start

135:08So there's a lot there in what you're saying and asking for. And I agree with you that people that need health care need health care. And where it's coming from isn't. I can't speak to figuring out how everybody gets it from the 9-11 fund versus the people that we see every day that need health care, that need help, that need compassion.

135:33So we're always out there helping people and providing that health care, and I think that's important. But moving on to the protection of people, I think this is an important area that functions from a strong incident command system.

135:48what you're asking for is things we should be doing. And they're tied into our presumptive acts for protecting firefighters and making sure that they don't get cancer. You should be monitoring the environment on every incident to make sure it's safe for not having protective equipment on.

136:09So I think it's part of a strong incident command system. It is part of the things that all of us use our grant money for to make sure we have hazmat teams that can do that.

136:17and that it's done and communicated and a strong incident commander takes care of that.

136:22Chief. Thank you, I would like to bridge off that. The incident commander, when they arrive on the scene, they're addressing the immediate life safety hazard, but as that unfolds, particularly if there's a hazardous atmosphere, that's built in and that's part of that unity of effort, that unified command, where you start to bring in, like say, the Department of Health, the Department of Environmental Protection, to start to be able to say, okay, what areas do we need to immediately evacuate?

136:52What areas do we need to shelter? So that we can try to mitigate and minimize as much as possible the exposure to the community. That's really baked into not only the very short-term response but over the long-term, particularly for say, like a hazardous material incident.

137:09So that's really part of, and that's why I think we've talked all the way this morning about, continually build on a national incident management system and incident command system training, incorporating more entities into that system.

137:25Thank you And very simply sir agreeing with my colleagues the hard lessons we learned and you right we continue to see that injury and that body count keep going up from 9 But we've now, as first responders, incorporated that into that response, making sure that the first people in always have the best prepared equipment to that.

137:46But it goes beyond into what you're looking for, is we clear out everybody else, and if we would allow anybody else in, if they can examine that environment. and the fire department does this for us very well.

137:56Is it safe? Do we have to keep people away until we can make it safe? Is now a best practice, and that national incident command system is just going to be so critical as we continue forward with that.

138:06Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

138:09The gentleman yields back. I now recognize the ranking member for UC.

138:15Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me again thank our witnesses. Look, your testimony is a testament to your training and ability. I thank you so much for it. And in the South, they say you're doing the Lord's work, but it is absolutely fundamental that we give you the resources necessary to do the best job you can.

138:48Mr. Chairman, you're a New Yorker. I don't see any other way for us to not be as robust as we can to provide those resources. And God forbid, if tragedy occurs, as Mr. Green just indicated, we have an obligation to protect those individuals who are impacted for as long as that situation exists.

139:23And we are a better country when we do that. And we are not a good country when we don't do it. So I look forward to resolving any outstanding health or related issues. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record.

139:43six documents, including five court cases related to FEMA and the preparedness grant, a GAO report, and an article entitled FEMA wanted to fill 2,799 vacancies and DHS said no. So we still have some disconnect within our shops.

140:10That objection. Thank you. I now recognize the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Evans, for five minutes

140:17of questions. Thank you, Chairman, Ranking Member, for having this today. And of course, thank you so much to the witnesses for coming and having this conversation and for putting your guys' lives on the line for what you do as first responders.

140:27I remember September 11th, 25 years ago, very clearly. I was a high school student, and it stuck with me. It stuck with me. It was a defining experience in my life, and it's why I joined the United States Army.

140:38I served for 12 years in the U.S. Army and the Colorado Army National Guard deployed overseas as part of the Global War on Terror in 2012 and 2013. And then I did another 10 years as a first responder myself as a police officer in the Denver metro area.

140:54And so through both my federal service, my deployed service, and then working in my local community as a first responder, I saw how September 11th changed how first responders, law enforcement, the national security apparatus, how it all works together.

141:12And one of the core principles of the 9-11 commission was to foster clear and consistent communication between federal, state, and local partners. That's why we have fusion centers, to literally fuse information together to form intelligence to be able to stop threats and terrorist attacks before they happen.

141:29Colorado, we have a fusion center. I got data and information and briefings from them on a daily basis as a police officer, and it worked to help save lives. Unfortunately, in my state, and we're seeing it in other states as well, Democrats are implementing policies that handcuff local law enforcement from being able to share information with their federal counterparts.

141:52In my state, cops are being reprimanded, sued, fined, and fired for sharing information with federal law enforcement partners. And these policy choices are detrimental for public safety officers well and at the at the end of the day community and national safety So Mr Erie first question to you I introduced a few bills to ease information sharing between DHS and local partners.

142:19And as we look forward at the next 25 years, it's important that we make sure that we're equipping cops, first responders, and everybody else that keeps us safe with the information that they need to be able to go out and do their jobs.

142:33So the question to you is how have you seen the flow of information evolve between federal agencies and state and local partners.

142:42Thank you for your service, Congressman. We at least from the Port Authority standpoint, and I speak for many of our colleagues in law enforcement, it's that absolutely, you mentioned, it's critical. It's a lesson learned that information is sometimes life.

142:55The quicker we can get it to people, and we can no longer do the days of silos or calling or waiting. And the fusion centers play that absolute critical role in letting us share that.

143:06And from our experience, we are members of not only the Joint Terrorism Task Force, but task forces throughout both states, New York and New Jersey, and we haven't had that problem. We share our information.

143:17We certainly do it appropriately. We don't get involved in federal operational issues, but the intelligence does flow very freely between all levels, especially in New York and New Jersey.

143:28I'm glad to hear that. You talked about silos. You talked about how this truly is a matter of life and death. So can you just expound upon how critically important that is to be able to have that information flow and how best you think that we can continue to break down these silos to be able to maintain that full operational picture?

143:48Yes, sir. And again, the mechanisms are in place. We are sharing, as many of the folks up here, my colleagues with me have said, and I would be worried about any laws that would be passed that would impede that.

144:01We've seen that happen in the past, and it's a recipe for disaster. Again, every agency, including the federal agencies, local and state, have their own operations, but the intelligence is the piece that has to go back and forth.

144:13And we've seen this most recently where we formed for FIFA a very large, multiple fusion centers, where the speed of being able to reach over and tell somebody what happening allowed us to conduct that operation that security operation flawlessly Thank you We know there people that sit around all day dreaming how to hurt and kill Americans

144:33As a cop, we had a case in Colorado of somebody trying to go join ISIS. Just last year, we had an attack on a Jewish community in Boulder, Colorado, carried out by a terrorist who was living here illegally and who had made violent social posts on social media.

144:50So in our last like 20 seconds or so, is there anything you said we have the mechanisms in place, is there anything else you think we need to do to tackle emerging threats and being able to improve information sharing?

145:03I think looking for that national level, the guidance from bodies like this and the federal government and the federal agencies, we're used to having them push that down and lead us through that. And that's something that we need to continue on.

145:14Again, we discussed earlier in one of the questions, if that bandwidth gets stretched too hard or too far, we lose some, we degrade that intelligence a little bit.

145:23Thank you, and I'm out of time, yield back.

145:26The gentleman yields back, and I just wanna thank you all again for coming, for your service, for Chief Correo and Mr. Erie, what your departments, what your agencies went through 25 years ago, and Chief Donnelly, but for those brave souls on United 93, what would have happened here in DC.

145:50And so thank you all for what you do, what you have done and what you'll continue to do to keep New York and the Washington DC Metro areas safe and the residents safe. And you gave us a lot of great information today and we're gonna take that back and make sure that we act on it.

146:13So just to follow up, the members of the committee, Some who did not make it here today, because they were also doing bills on the floor, they may have some additional questions for you all.

146:24And we would ask that the witnesses respond to these in writing. Pursuant due committee rule 7E, the hearing record will be held open for 10 days. And without objection, this committee stands adjourned.

146:36you