Twenty-Five Years After 9/11 — Evolving Terrorism Landscape & State Department Response — September 16, 2026

09:25The Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa will come to order. The purpose of this hearing is to examine the evolution of global terrorism in the landscape and assess the Department of State's role in leading and coordinating U.S. counterterrorism efforts abroad.

09:54I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Morning, everyone, and thank you to our witness Mr. Joel Borkert from the State Department's Bureau of Counterterrorism for appearing before us today. Last week, we marked 25 years since the September 11th terrorist attacks.

10:12Today, we convened this subcommittee hearing to examine how the geopolitical landscape has evolved since 9-11 and how states' counterterrorism response has evolved with it. To all of my colleagues on the committee and everyone watching at home, I just want to remind you that we, New Yorkers, don't just think about 9-11 on the anniversary every year.

10:33We have spent the last 25 years mourning loved ones, our neighbors, fighting for better health care for survivors and first responders, and funding the USVST Fund and memorials to the fallen, all in pursuit of supporting every individual impacted by these attacks.

10:53While New York feels the scars every day, the terrorists that committed these attacks, including their proxies and affiliates, represent a global threat. Our State Department is now charged with confronting these threats abroad before they ever reach our shores again.

11:08The Bureau of Counterterrorism is the Department's backbone for that mission. CT leads U.S. diplomatic engagement on counterterrorism, administers related sanctions, and builds partner nations' capacity to detect and disrupt threats. Twenty-five years after 9-11, that threat looks nothing like it did in 2001.

11:30Al-Qaeda's core is degraded, but its affiliates have spread across the Sahel and South Asia. ISIS has lost its territory, but still radicalizes and recruits online. Iran and its proxies remain active across the Middle East.

11:47Terrorist groups increasingly exploit the Internet and emerging technology to spread propaganda and inspire lone actors. And this administration has now added transnational criminal organizations to the list of terrorist threats. This hearing gives us the opportunity to hear directly from the Bureau about the work it has done to meet the shift head-on.

12:09It will allow the committee to understand how CT is running programs as a coordinated system, targeting same priority partners against a shared threat assessment, and to learn more about the real results that approach has delivered Effective counterterrorism policy is built on a strong partnership between Congress and the State Department grounded in transparency and shared strategic vision As we learn more about CT coordination with allies and partners and look for opportunities to sharpen its efficiency and impact, this subcommittee remains a committed partner in ensuring the Bureau has the authorities, structure, and guidance it needs to meet the threats of today.

12:48Mr. Borchardt, we look forward to your testimony and to a serious discussion of how we honor those we lost on September 11th, 25 years ago, by getting this mission right for the many years to come.

13:05With that, I now recognize the ranking member of the committee, Representative Moskowitz, for five minutes for his opening statement.

13:15Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank Chairman Lawler for convening the hearing this morning, and thank you to the witness, coordinator for coming to testify this morning. As the chairman mentioned last week marked the solemn 25-year anniversary of 9-11, the worst and most deadly terrorist attack on the U.S. mainland soil.

13:33Like many in this room I remember that day I was actually a student at George Washington University where I watched smoke rise from the Pentagon from my apartment. We must never forget the lives we lost or the selfless bravery of law enforcement and first responders that sacrificed their lives to save their fellow Americans and defend this great nation.

13:57On that point I want to thank my colleague Chairman Lawler for spearheading his bipartisan legislation the American Victims of Terrorism Compensation Act. We must pass this bill to ensure victims are justly compensated. I also want to recognize the military, intelligence, diplomatic, and law enforcement personnel who across the US government day in and day out work tirelessly to protect our country and apply the lessons of 9-11 and have kept us safe since those days.

14:26When we attack federal workers, we attack the very people who are keeping Americans safe every day since 9-11. Today's hearing comes at a critical time. 25 years since 9-11, the threat of terrorism persists, though it has changed significantly.

14:41The rise of technologies allowed terrorist groups to expand their reach and recruitment, approach by spreading their heinous views across social media, and made fundraising easier via the use of digital currencies which often circumvent existing sanctions With all these developments one would hope the administration would take the opportunity to ensure their strategies tools and resourcing are up to the task that the work of the Counterterrorism Bureau at the State Department is nonpartisan clear and comprehensive in its role, and as coordinator among allies and partners.

15:09Unfortunately, there are a number of deeply concerning moves that threaten to undermine that work. In July of 2025, Secretary Rubio eliminated the Office of Countering Violent Extremism at the State Department, which focused on combating political violence in all its forms, including anti-Semitic attacks, which are clearly on the rise.

15:30In May, the White House released its counterterrorism strategy for 2026, which makes no mention of the threat stemming from neo-Nazis or other far right-wing groups and provides no details of comprehensive approach or detailed steps the U.S. government is taking to address the threat of ISIS, sleeper cells in Syria, or the hundreds of ISIS high-value detainees that escaped from detention centers earlier this year.

15:54Furthermore, the CT Bureau has still not provided Congress a detailed breakdown of where its current, recently reallocated resources are going and what percent of those resources are going to address jihadist or Islamist terrorism.

16:07Additionally, in your testimony, you stated that strong partners are force multipliers for American security, and obviously this is true. After 9-11, it was our allies who stood alongside us in Iraq and Afghanistan. They shared intelligence and coordinated with us on the ground.

16:22Yet today we are isolating our partners. America is a powerful country with a capable military and intelligence community. But as the veterans of the CT Bureau would surely tell you, this is not enough to keep Americans safe.

16:33We need allies to work with us and trust us. And that trust and goodwill has been diminished. The work before us is deeply important, has real-life consequences, and that's why I'm concerned that we're not fully focused on addressing real, documented terrorist threats we face every day.

16:49If the administration truly believes right-wing terrorism has been completely eliminated, it should present the data and concrete intelligence to the committee. The American people deserve a counterterrorism approach based on data, concrete intelligence, and the threats as they are, not an extended political stunt.

17:07I urge the administration to work with Congress, provide us the answers we need, and resubmit a counterterrorism strategy that is worth the paper it's written on. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

17:15Thank you.

17:16Thank you to the ranking member. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. We are pleased to have the Deputy Coordinator for Programs and Military Coordination for the Bureau of Counterterrorism at the U Department of State retired Lieutenant Colonel Joel Borkert before us today Your full statements will be made part of the record, and I'll ask you to keep your spoken remarks to five minutes in order to allow time for member questions.

17:43I now recognize Mr. Borkert for an opening statement.

17:50Chairman Lawler, Ranking Member Moskowitz, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear today. 25 years ago this week, I was a senior in college. September 11th changed me forever. Within months, I commissioned as an infantry officer, and that morning set the course for the next 20 years of my life.

18:08That is true for a whole generation of Americans. We deployed, most came home, but some did not. 25 years later, I measure our work against what it costs to get here. We got a number of things right.

18:20We assembled a global coalition. We took away the sanctuary. Al-Qaeda used to plan those attacks, and we destroyed the ISIS caliphate and killed al-Baghdadi, al-Zahari, and bin Laden. And we built a counterterrorism architecture designed to stop attacks before they happen.

18:35By God's grace, our nation has not suffered another attack on the scale of September 11th. But we also got some things wrong. We sometimes measured effort instead of effect, we stood up partner forces we could not sustain, and we treated counterterrorism as a permanent condition rather than a means of solving a specific problem, and we suffered from mission creep.

18:58Today, we face a fundamentally different terrorist landscape than we did 25 years ago. Although significantly degraded, the Islamic terrorist threat persists, fueled by Iran's proxies and jihadist groups exploiting weak borders and fragile states.

19:09Meanwhile, narco-terrorists have devastated American communities, contributing to hundreds and thousands of deaths and far-left terrorism has re-emerged to target the institutions, the ideals, and the principles of our constitutional republic. Terrorists have adapted, exploiting AI, drones, digital assets, chat rooms, and the dark web to radicalize, recruit, finance, and inspire across borders.

19:39Today, small cells or even individuals can achieve effects that once required large organizations, extensive resources, and physical sanctuary. The lessons of the last 25 years are clear, and so are many of the threats that we face today.

19:54And the President's national security strategy and his counterterrorism strategy reflect that reality protect the American homeland first identify threats before they happen act with precision over permanence and expect capable partners to carry their fair share of the burden and I am proud of the critical role the Department of State plays in advancing the President's counterterrorism priorities first we put the strategy into action by focusing on the homeland and working outward, confronting the threats closest to the home.

20:23We have secured our border, and under President Trump and Secretary Rubio's leadership, we have designated 21 cartels as foreign terrorist organizations or specially designated global terrorists. Those designations bring the full weight of our counterterrorism architecture to bear, disrupting financing and logistics while equipping capable partners to dismantle these organizations before their their violence reaches American communities.

20:53Second, we focus on high payoff efforts that stop terrorists before they reach our border. By sharing terrorist screening and traveler information and strengthening aviation board and border security, we push our defense outward. A single watchlist hit at a foreign airport can stop a terrorist before they even board a plane at a fraction of a cost of deploying military forces.

21:16Third, strong partners are force multipliers for American security. and we are mobilizing them to shoulder their share of the fight. Together, we are applying sustained financial pressure and diplomacy to deny the IRGC and its proxies the resources that sustain their terrorist networks.

21:35We are also leading efforts with partners to combat far-left terrorism, strengthening detection and information sharing so today's violence does not grow into a threat that jeopardizes our fundamental values and freedoms. Finally, the reorganization has improved coordination, its eliminated redundancy, and demanded results, ensuring every program, dollar, and partnership makes America safer, stronger, and more prosperous.

22:03And that brings me back to where I started. I'm often asked what we learned from 9-11. Two of the hijackers were known to this government, but not on a watch list. Today, our watch list system is greatly improved and designed to make that kind of failure far less likely.

22:20I have devoted the past 25 years of my life to helping ensure this country would never suffer an attack like that again This summer my son will commission as an Army officer He was not alive on September 11th but he inevitably inherits this mission My obligation, and I would respectfully submit our obligation, is to hand him a country that does not have to learn this lesson twice.

22:45I look forward to your questions.

22:50Thank you, Mr. Borchert. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questions. 25 years after 9-11, how has the Bureau's core mission changed, and how are you ensuring that an attack like that never happens again?

23:09Yes, thank you for that question, Mr. Chairman. So the Trump administration is applying the lessons learned from the past 25 years by keeping what works and correcting what's not. We are leveraging the CT architecture to defend the homeland first.

23:26Our primary responsibility is to prevent attacks on the homeland, and that is this administration's number one counterterrorism objectives. We are also looking to find threats before they reach us and use precision over permanence.

23:41That means we're moving away from expensive and unfocused capacity building efforts and investing on what actually stops attacks, which are things like strong borders screening, modern watch listing, real-time information sharing, and strategic counterterrorism financing.

23:55And we are expecting our partners to carry their fair share. So we're shifting the responsibility to where it belongs, to our partners and allies, whose stability and sovereignty are directly at state. So America will lead, but we will no longer carry the fight alone.

24:10And so that's how we're addressing the lessons learned from September 11th and moving forward.

24:17The State Department's reorganization moved the CT Bureau under the Undersecretary for Arms Control and International Security. What have the benefits been of this move and how has it improved counterterrorism coordination within the State Department?

24:32Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Great question. It is actually the reorganization I think is into one that what we call the T family, undersecretariat where we've moved all the security assistance bureaus under one family has been a tremendous asset to ensuring that we breaking down silos and that we eliminating redundancies across all the security assistance programs in the interagency I routinely am able and same with my team to talk to the other security assistance bureaus like INL, especially now that we're doing a lot of stuff in the Western Hemisphere, and ensuring that we're not being redundant and that we're being complementary in our efforts as we conduct our security assistance.

25:16What this has done is it's led to faster coordination, I think clear accountability, and stronger interagency action. So the U.S. government is finally working like one team to fight against terrorism.

25:28Given that ISIS remnants remain active in Syria, how important is Syria's commitment to the defeat ISIS coalition and its continued counterterrorism coordination with the U.S. to prevent an ISIS resurgence?

25:42Thank you, sir. Syria's support is tremendously important. The new government is working with us against ISIS and denying the space to groups such as Hezbollah. They have joined the De-ISIS coalition. We have a meeting in October that they will be joining to try to get the international partners to support Syria more.

26:08Our priority is to prevent the resurgence of ISIS and Al Qaeda in Syria, to protect our U.S. interests, to disrupt external operation plots, and help our partners support building Syria CT capability. We're doing that.

26:23So far, the Syrian government has been working in that direction. There's still a lot of work to do. I mean, I think we all can acknowledge that. But what we've seen so far is them willing, and we are here to help them and the international community support, building their capability to actually do that.

26:46In the final days of President Trump's first administration, State Department designated the Houthis as a terrorist organization. Yet the Biden administration swiftly removed that designation. Years later, we can see this was a poor decision that has only enabled this group.

27:02Why are FTO designations and other terrorist designations important? And why must we be careful not to remove designations too soon?

27:11Thank you for the question, sir. Designations are extremely important. They are a powerful tool that opens up the entire CT toolkit such as enabling sanctions immigration consequences material support jurisdiction coordinated law enforcement financial pressure and security assistance So designations really open up the entire CT architecture to go after

27:38these terrorist organizations. What specific authorities or additional guidance from Congress would help the bureau operate more effectively?

27:49Thank you for that question. I think the most significant thing is just to be able to ensure that we have the necessary resources and authorities to ensure that the funding bills are passed and provided to us.

28:11So I think consistency when it comes to the resourcing piece. And I think right now we have the authorities that we need.

28:22My time has expired. I now recognize the ranking member, Representative Moskowitz for five minutes.

28:28Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm gonna yield to Mr. Schneider to do his questions first. Oh, I apologize.

28:33Now recognize Mr. Schneider for five minutes.

28:36Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Booker. Before we start, let me just commend your son. My son served five years as a naval officer. When you see your son commissioned, there is no greater feeling you will be two feet taller.

28:51My son was alive. He was in third grade on 9-11, and I think it inspired him, and it inspires me to make sure we keep our country safe. Twenty-five years following that horrible attack, terrorist attack, the terrorism landscape has, as you noted, changed dramatically.

29:07Al Qaeda and ISIS remain threats, but terrorist organizations are more diffuse, more technologically capable, as you noted, and more able and willing to use new technologies such as drones and other emerging technologies to wreak havoc where they are, where we live, and around the world.

29:25This week, the Arambach Houthis have made strategic pushes and territorial gains seizing much of the country's Red Sea coast, including the island of Mayim, the port of Mocha and the Anish Islands. They are moving closer to the Bab al-Mandeb Strait and have launched attacks against Saudi targets, prompting Saudi and Yemeni government forces to conduct airstrikes against Houthi positions.

29:48The complex terrorist landscape that threatens Americans at home and around the world and challenges our interests globally requires a comprehensive counterterrorism strategy that uses all the tools at our disposal. It must be grounded in facts, expertise, and interagency cooperation, and it must encourage strong partnerships with our allies.

30:08Our challenge, we have to take the threat seriously. We need the expertise to understand the threat and how we address it. We need the partnerships with our allies around the world to fight it.

30:18And lastly, we need persistence and perseverance. That's why I'm concerned about the politicization of our counterterrorism efforts and the loss of expertise across the State Department. At a moment when the threat landscape is becoming more complicated, we've seen programs and capabilities across our counterterrorism infrastructure eliminated or significantly reduced.

30:42At the same time, our counterterrorism strategy appears to be placing particular emphasis on certain forms of political violence. We have to take every threat seriously, But our counterterrorism policy should be driven by an objective assessment of the threats we face, all the threats we face.

31:03Political violence is dangerous regardless of the ideology behind it, and Americans deserve a strategy that reflects the full threat landscape. The United States has spent 25 years building the capabilities and partnerships necessary to prevent another attack like 9-11.

31:18We must maintain that capacity to work with partners overseas to disrupt terrorist financing, strengthen law enforcement and border security, counter recruitment and radicalization, and respond to emerging technologies that terrorists can exploit. These are not partisan tools.

31:32They are national security tools and they are required to keep America safe. That is the standard we should expect from our counterterrorism policy today and forever. And you talk about in your remarks this distinction between precision and permanence.

31:48And I'll be honest, I don't really understand it. I agree with my colleague on the concerns about the designation of the Houthis as a terrorist organization. They are unquestionably and have always been a terrorist organization.

32:00They continue to make progress. We had a hearing in this very room a couple weeks ago talking about the need to address the Houthi threat. My concern is that when you talk about permanence, Houthis aren't going away any day soon.

32:13How do you distinguish precision versus permanence in talking about addressing the Houthi threat and others like it?

32:19Thank you, sir. Thank you for those kind words. I am looking forward to my son getting commissioned To answer your question when we say precision over permanence what we talking about is moving away from a lot of the expensive unfocused capacity building efforts that we done in the past.

32:38I don't think we have any intention right now of moving large amounts of forces into Yemen to address the Houthi threat. The Houthis are a threat. They are a terrorist proxy for the Iranian regime and so that's why from the CT counterterrorism bureaus perspective we're going to continue to go after them by ensuring that we have strong border screening modern watch listing real-time but but

33:10mr. Boker I understand we have to have strong screening at airports but the Houthis have increased their capacity to close down the Bob Amanda Iran has closed down the Straits of Hormuz terrorist threats are now much more than individual lone wolves which we have to constantly be vigilant against but if we don't have the permanent capacities the partnerships with our allies to thwart efforts like the Houthis Al Qaeda is no longer is not gone they may be diminished but they're still in Afghanistan and they've increased strength in Africa and the Arabian Peninsula how do we turn away from our allies in those partnerships at a time when the threats continue to grow when when it comes to

33:52to the Houthi threat and really all the Iranian-backed proxy threats, you know, we are attacking a system that sustains it with maximum pressure. So for example, when it comes to the burden-sharing piece, we're leading a diplomatic campaign to urge governments to also designate the IRGC and their terrorist proxies.

34:13So far we've had over two dozen governments adopt designations and restrictions, which provides them the tools to be able to go after the-

34:20I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we're just limited on time. I agree we need to designate the IRGC. We've been leading the effort here in Congress, but we also need to make sure that we are working with our allies to address the very real threats and the growing strength of terrorist organizations in Africa, in the Arabian Peninsula, across the Middle East and around the world that are intent and committed to harming Americans, harming American interests and attacking our homeland.

34:48Yes, sir. And I completely agree. And the counterterrorism Bureau is doing that. That's why we have been working with our partners and allies to help develop their capabilities to be able to go after these groups And that why we encouraged them to designate them In fact our deputy coordinator is actually leading the Countering Transnational Terrorism Forum in Paraguay today, which is focused on countering Iranian proxies.

35:11So we are doing that. We are working with our partners. We are working with our allies to ensure that they can go after these proxy groups like the Houthis,

35:21I'm way over time. I appreciate the extra time I have. The gentleman's time has expired. I now recognize Representative Sherman for five minutes.

35:29I'm concerned that we need to follow the money and that that will become far more difficult if crypto actually becomes a currency. It literally means cryptocurrency literally means hidden money. From Los Angeles, we've got the Olympics coming up.

35:46I'm concerned about drone attacks on stadiums. You can jam the radio control of a radio-controlled drone. But in Ukraine, on both sides, we're seeing an increasing use, perhaps up to one-third, of fiber-optics-controlled drones that don't use radio control.

36:08Do we have the technology to prevent malicious actors from using drones to attack a stadium at the Olympics?

36:17Olympics. Thank you for that question, sir. For domestic matters, I would defer to DHS on what capabilities that they have. I will say that we have multiple agencies and other bureaus that are looking at emerging technology such as drones, AI, other platforms.

36:36The CT Bureau collaborates and coordinates with them on countering these emerging threats?

36:46I thank you. I'm working with those agencies trying to get them to look at some of the technology that has been developed, but I'm certainly concerned about that kind of attack. A democracy makes good decisions when Congress is consulted and when the American people are involved.

37:11Unfortunately, the Iran war was not a good decision. And, Mr. Chairman, I would hope that this subcommittee would have hearings into the Iran war. We have not. We also have not had hearings on the Saudi 123 agreement The Republicans on this committee were formally informed in December that an agreement that did not meet the gold standard was in negotiation.

37:42That was shared with Democrats in February. We have had a long time to put together hearings on that very dangerous agreement. The vast majority of the 9-11 hijackers were citizens of Saudi Arabia. I remember when the most powerful monarch in the Middle East was a good friend of the United States.

38:06But every weapon system that the Shah got in the early 70s was in the hands of the mullahs by the end of the 1970s. 1970s. Mr. Borkut, is there substantial support among the people of Saudi Arabia for the ideals of Al Qaeda, or were those Saudi hijackers somehow a figment of the past?

38:36I mean, I would have to defer to Saudi Arabia and NEA on the specifics on where they stand Now, I will say this, that in addition to military cooperation, basing, information sharing, and bilat.

38:50I'm sure we cooperate with the Saudi government. The question is, it's not a democracy. Who's going to be running Saudi Arabia? We cooperated with the Shah in 1978. Thank God we didn't cooperate on a nuclear cooperation agreement.

39:07Uncontrolled AI with AI in control poses an existential threat. But before we get there, we have to worry about AI being used as a tool by humans who might be malevolent actors. We have seen the Houthis, we have seen other terrorist groups use AI to improve their missiles, to identify targets and perhaps to at least begin to work on biological weapons.

39:46What is your bureau doing to either prevent the use of AI by terrorist groups and terrorist nations or to respond to such possible action?

39:56Yes, sir. Thank you for that question. There's multiple agencies and bureaus that are working on this. We have the Emerging Threats Bureau, which is in our family, so we work very closely with them.

40:10We collaborate and coordinate on countering emerging threats such as AI. We have and will leverage the full CT architecture to counter this threat. As a person who's seen us effectively adapt to the evolving terrorist landscape over the past 25 years, I'm confident we'll continue to do so.

40:28And finally, it disturbs me that there's nothing in your report, the White House Counterterrorism Strategy makes zero mention of right-wing violence. What we saw in this Capitol on January 6th shows us that anti-Semitic militant groups, white supremacist groups, are indeed a terrorist threat.

40:50We saw that with Melissa Hortman. We also see extreme left-wing inspired terrorism in this country. That is, however, dealt with the reports, and I would hope that your organization would focus proportionately on both our right-wing and left-wing domestic terrorism.

41:10And I yield back.

41:12Chairman, your time has expired. Our now recognized representative Moskowitz for five minutes.

41:18Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, thank you for your service to the country. There's left-wing extremism in the country, right? You listed as one of the top three issues. Yes, sir.

41:32That's correct.

41:33Right. There's right-wing extremism, right, as well.

41:39There likely is. Likely? There has been right-wing extremism. There's likely right-wing extremism in the country? There has been right-wing extremism, but there's been left-wing extremism. No, no.

41:49I just want to be clear. and the report mentions left-wing extremism. I'm agreeing with you there is left-wing extremism. The report talks about Antifa. I'm agreeing with you about that. I'm not saying you're wrong.

42:03But there's also right-wing extremism, right? There are various forms. Why are you struggling to answer that?

42:12What I'll tell you, sir, is there are various forms of...

42:15I know, but here's the problem. Every American knows the answer to the question is there's extremism on both sides. There's left-wing extremism and there's right-wing extremism. We can debate whether it 60 55 we can debate that But there is no debate amongst the American people that there is left extremists and there are right extremists But you struggle to answer on the right-wing extremists.

42:39Melissa Hortman was killed by a right-wing extremist, not mentioned in your report. Charlie Kirk is mentioned, I'm glad it's mentioned. He was killed by a left-wing extremist. And so let me ask this question.

42:51I'll give you another shot at it. is are there right-wing extremists political violence by right right wing in this country there I can see the wheels turning in your head trying to figure out how you don't get in trouble

43:08to try to answer that question that's that's not true there are why isn't it just a yes the CT

43:13bureau but why isn't it goes out why isn't the answer representative ideology but but why isn't the answer, Representative Moskowitz, of course there's right-wing and left-wing extremists. Of course there's political violence on both sides.

43:23We all know this. So does the audience. Why don't you? There are all forms. There's left. Oh, it's now all forms. It's all people.

43:41Right? All lives matter. Is that what you're doing now? No. Sarah, what I'm trying to tell you is that there yes you are correct there is left-wing extremism and violence and there is right-wing and this administration as the secretary has said in his July ministerial left-wing extremism and terrorists has been a blind spot that we must rectify and that's why this administration is taking it seriously hold on that's great I don't disagree with anything you

44:10just said but it seems the blind spot is that it's on the right wing for you it took you three minutes to get to a yes that there is right-wing extremism. Okay, I'll move on.

44:17I think I've made the point with the problem with this report is that it's completely one-sided. Now listen, let's change subjects for a second. As part of our counterterrorism strategy, this is page 11 of the report, given the freedom of maritime navigation is crucial to the U.S. economy, we will not allow strategic waterways such as the Strait of Hormuz or Red Sea to be held hostage by a non-state or state actors.

44:42In Yemen, we're prepared to take decisive action again, and our ships are endangered by the Houthis. Obviously, that's the goal in the report. We not living up to that because obviously we have problems in the Strait of Hormuz now and we getting problems in the Red Sea You mentioned we talked a little bit about the Houthis and the strategy Reuters is reporting this morning that US officials met with the Houthis in Oman.

45:10You aware of that over the weekend?

45:14I am not aware of that.

45:15So Reuters is reporting that US officials met with the Houthis in Oman over the weekend and struck a deal with them. that we struck a deal with the terrorist organization that they won't attack our ships and they won't attack Israel's ships, they'll only attack Saudi ships.

45:32You're not aware if that meeting took place or we made that deal?

45:37Sure, I'm not aware of any of that.

45:38Sure, let's say, for the sake of argument, the deal that that meeting did happen, and that is the deal. And that is why we're not going in and helping Saudi Arabia. That's why, when we talked just last week, that we're not doing enough to fight the Houthis, which we agree on a bipartisan basis we should be, is would you be okay if we struck a deal with the Houthis?

46:05This administration is committed to defending the homeland first and protecting American citizens. And that is what we're doing.

46:13I know, but I heard your strong argument about what we need to be doing against the Houthis. And now we find out that we're meeting with them, striking a deal with them, the terrorist organization.

46:23So you can't have it both ways, is what I'm saying. So I'm Mr. Chairman, I'm over my time. Appreciate your indulgence. You want to go a second round?

46:33It's up to you. We will now commence a second round of questioning.

46:39You're really giving me a second bite of the apple with him?

46:41Sure.

46:42Okay.

46:44One little understood part the counterterrorism picture is actually the Philippines and where there is still a relatively minor yet important presence of ISIS affiliated terrorists. Can you please give us the latest update on how the Trump administration is eliminating this threat in the Indo-Pacific?

47:05Yes Mr. Chairman, thank you for that question. We continue to have a robust counterterrorism program with the philippines it's our largest in the east asia pacific region i could give you this i'm not sure the exact specifics on on the total active amount of funding that we have there when it comes to counterterrorism i know we have a total of 44 million active in East Asia Pacific that would include Indonesia Malaysia and the Philippines CT supports prosecutors and investigators We brought terrorist financing charges against individuals involved in kidnapping of a U.S. citizen.

47:37So our partnership with the Philippines is extremely robust and we will continue it. It's one of our premier programs and good news stories when it comes to our CT programming.

47:56And there appears to have been real progress in addressing the CT mission in Indonesia with no deaths in the last three years. Can you give us an update on the latest with respect to

48:07counterterrorism there? Yes, sir. Again, Indonesia is a huge success story. We've been doing a counterterrorism programming with them for over 20 years. Our assistance has led to over 1,300 arrests of suspected terrorists with 100% conviction rates and in the disbandment of an FTO along with those responsible for the deaths of U.S. citizens.

48:33Al-Qaeda figures have found shelter in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, especially after that disastrous withdrawal in 2021 under the Biden administration. What is the Bureau's current assessment of al-Qaeda's operational presence and freedom of movement inside and outside of Afghanistan?

48:53And has that presence grown or diminished?

48:57Thank you for that question. We do not recognize the Taliban, obviously, as a government. They remain specially designated global terrorists. One of the reasons why is because they do offer a safe haven for al-Qaeda.

49:12I would defer to you to the intelligence community on how much they are able to operate within Afghanistan and whether there's been a growth in that. But they do continue to harbor those terrorists.

49:23and that's why we continue to press them to not do that and to abide by their agreement that they have with the international community.

49:37Pakistan remains a critical, if complicated, partner in the fight against terrorism in South Asia, given its long border with Afghanistan and its own history with militant groups. Can you speak to how the Bureau works with Pakistan on counterterrorism and where that partnership has been most effective and where concerns remain given their checkered past over these past 20 years?

50:0025 years? Yes, sir. I would say when it comes to Pakistan, our counterterrorism partnership with them is one of our more is very strong. It's one of the bright spots within our relationship with the Pakistanis.

50:20We have active programming. We have approximately $30 million in active programming across not only Pakistan, but also Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, but much of that is with Pakistan. We do an annual CT dialogue with them every year.

50:37We just wrapped that up a few weeks ago. And so a lot of our effort with the Pakistanis is to help provide them with the ability to protect their borders. We're also doing some new programming with them to help facilitate some of the, on the commercial side of the house.

50:57And so I think when it comes to to Pakistan, you know, this is this is an area that we continue to a partnership we continue to to mature. What role is CT Bureau

51:13playing in addressing the terrorist threat in Nigeria? And how does the terrorist threat tie into the targeted violence against Christian communities in the north and in the middle belt? and what programming is CT operating or considering for Nigeria?

51:29The protection of Christians in Nigeria is this administration's number one priority. I've traveled out to Nigeria actually twice just this year. That shows how serious we are about tackling this issue. We're using all elements of our national power to address this issue.

51:45CT tools like security assistance, diplomatic engagements, and ways to more effectively burden share to stop the violence is what we're doing. We have two robust programs right now in Nigeria. One helps support their forensics lab and then another helps with the countering their terrorist

52:07financing. And lastly, when the department designated the first eight cartels in February of 2025, critics called it symbolic. Since then, the department has designated 20 groups across the the hemisphere The leaders of both Jalisco New Generation Cartel and Tren de Aragua are dead and Maduro is in U custody What have the designations made possible that was not possible before And what do you consider the Bureau biggest win in this space

52:38Yes, thank you for that question. We have, when it comes to the narco-terrorist, they use assassination, kidnapping, territorial control, and violence violence intended to coerce governments. So this administration rightfully designated them as a terrorist organization.

53:00Designations are a powerful tool. It's opened up the entire CT architecture. I think some of the big things that it's allowed us to do is not only go after individuals and corporations for material support, but it's also allowing us to do security assistance in order to be able to train these countries to address the threat within their country and prevent that violence from spilling over to America.

53:26My time has expired. I now recognize Representative Moskowitz for five minutes.

53:31Do you want to go to one of your members?

53:32We have three in a row. That's fine. We will recognize Representative Kane for five minutes.

53:39Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to our esteemed witness for being here today. September 11, 2001 is a day that is etched into our memory, a day that will always mark unimaginable loss, a day that we will never forget.

54:00We remember and honor the victims and the families, as well as the brave men and women who answered the call on one of the darkest day in our nation's history. Now we must continue to tell that story with honesty, honor the people we lost, and stand with the families who still carry that loss.

54:18As Congress remembers the Census Act of Terror, we also must remain steadfast in our commitment to preventing such evil from ever gaining hold again. With the increased use of AI for criminal enterprises, can you share how the Bureau of Counterterrorism is working to address the use of artificial intelligence to counter terrorism?

54:43Yes, thank you, sir. There are multiple agencies and other bureaus that have the primary mission to assess and develop tools to effectively address the use of emerging technology like AI The Counterterrorism Bureau we collaborating and coordinating with these other entities to counter those emerging threats And we have and we are leveraging the full CT architecture to counter this threat We have the new Emerging Threats Bureau in the Department of State.

55:10And so my team has been working very close with them. As a person who's seen us effectively adapt to the evolving terrorist landscape over the last 25 years, I'm confident that we will adapt ourselves and continue to do so.

55:25As the Bureau of Counterterrorism adapts to a changing landscape and new threats, how can Congress work to best support all four sectors of the Bureau?

55:35Yes, sir. I think just when it comes to resourcing, ensuring that we have the necessary resourcing to be able to do this, that our appropriations laws are passed and it gives us enough time to really be able to program out into the future.

56:00So it gives us the ability to be able to do that. And I think right now we have the necessary authorities to do what we need to do.

56:09What most concerns you about the evolving technology landscapes in counterterrorism?

56:17Great question, sir. I mean, I think there's a lot that concerns me. Again, I know we've talked a lot about AI and the use of AI. I think some of the things that concerns me, and I've actually stood up a team in one of our offices to look at emerging threats.

56:36I'm calling it counterterrorism 2035 and beyond. So I think terrorists being able to leverage AI to perhaps develop like a bio weapon, terrorists are going after critical infrastructure, things like data centers and stuff like that.

56:56So being able to really set the conditions now in order to address those threats into the future is something that is near and dear to me and something that we're doing. And so those are the things that I think really concern me.

57:12Thank you for being here today. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Representative Kane. I now recognize Representative Wilson for five minutes.

57:21Thank you very much Mr Chairman and thank you for being here today And what an incredible time I actually see positive And that is with Turkish and Saudi Arabian assistance the Assad dictatorship in Syria has been removed.

57:37The Assad himself, the dictator, has fled to Moscow. With that in mind, a 54-year Baptist dictatorship has been overthrown. And now we have a new government that I am really grateful that President Donald Trump has identified to give Syria a chance upon his meeting with President Ahmad al-Shahra in Riyadh.

57:59With that in hand, now Syria is taking a larger role on counterterrorism, having joined the global coalition to defeat ISIS and with the new government expelling Iranian-backed terrorist organizations from Syria, including intercepting weapons smuggling operations from Iraq intended for Hezbollah in Lebanon, and there is tremendous opportunity for peace and prosperity and stability, thanks to President Trump's vision, where he's identified that we have a greater opportunity for stability, peace and prosperity in 3,000 years.

58:32I would let him know it's 8,000. Damascus was founded 8,000 years ago. So he's really understating. What more can be done to support the Syrian government and enhance intel sharing to proactively address potential terror threats?

58:47Yes, thank you for that question, sir. The Syrian government is working with us against ISIS, and they are denying space to groups such as Hezbollah. And this has been a good news story. Our priority is to prevent the resurgence of ISIS and al-Qaeda, to protect U.S. interests, disrupt operational – external operational threats, and help our partners support Syria.

59:13So I think right now the Syrians really have the will, but now it's trying to ensure that they have the capability to do this. So some of the things that we're doing is we are working with the De-ISIS Coalition.

59:25We actually have a meeting in October where we're bringing the Syrians, and we've asked for the types of needs that they have, and we're really trying to work together as an international community in order to be able to build up their capability.

59:39It's going to take a long time, but like I've said, they have the will. Now it's the international community's responsibility to help them get there.

59:49I appreciate that attitude very much, lifting state sponsor of terrorism, lifting any and all regulations. There are still some regulations on labor issues of all things. that inhibit investment in Syria. And the Syrian diaspora, particularly in the United States, are a very successful economically understatement.

60:12And we would like for them to be able to have an effort to restore what could be a very prosperous country. Additionally, how important is it to have stability in Syria and sovereignty in terms of preventing terrorist resurgence as Iran is trying to destabilize the country by dividing by ethnic groups?

60:36Sorry, can you repeat that question one more time, sir?

60:39How important is it to have a sovereign, stable Syria as it's being, because of the potential of terrorism? What I'm getting at, okay, is that Iran is dividing the country by different ethnic groups, rather than the Druze or the Alawites, you name it, Kurds.

60:58And in between, that would create an opportunity for ISIS.

61:02Yeah, it's extremely important for them to be able to maintain their sovereignty to ensure that the Iranians are not leveraging the different groups in Syria to try to break it up. I think from the State Department's perspective, we are monitoring that situation.

61:24Ambassador Barak works really closely with the Syrians to address these threats. We in the Counterterrorism Bureau, I lead a counterterrorism working group where I bring the entire interagency together. We've been doing this for about a year.

61:41And we're not only looking at ISIS and Al Qaeda, but also Hezbollah and some of those Iranian back proxies and really trying to see what the interagency can do to counter those in order for Syria to maintain its sovereignty.

61:53And the next, you can get back with me later, but two of my sons served in Iraq to help liberate that country. And so it's particularly sad to me to see the inability or maybe just overlooking the Iranian-backed elements of the Popular Mobilization Forces, which operate under the direction of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.

62:15What's being done to, as there's a withdrawal, to indeed ensure a sovereign Iraq?

62:23You can get back with me Thank you I yield back Thank you Representative Wilson I now recognize Representative Burchett for five minutes Thank you Mr Chairman It a pleasure being here and

62:35thank you, sir, for your willingness to endure this. And I'm stalling right now until I find my notes here, which my crack staff was supposed to... Oh, I got them right here. I know where they are.

62:46Thank you. And being the 435th most powerful member of Congress, sir. I'm usually the last one to ask questions. So after you've answered this question the third time, the first thing you need to say.

62:58I am beloved. That is true. But you need to, every time a question has been asked multiple times, you say, that is an interesting question, sir. That is incredible. So in the aftermath of the October 7th terrorist attacks, Hezbollah was essentially eliminated, allegedly.

63:17We always hear these groups are eliminated and seem to pop up, but it's gradually recovered. Why are terrorist groups of this caliber so difficult to eradicate? Is it the mindset of the people or is it something that's just been infected or how do you eliminate it?

63:32That's a very interesting question, sir.

63:38Thank you. I concur. No, I think there's multiple reasons why these groups are are very difficult to address. A lot of it, I think, is their own ideology. But I think also a lot of these groups are, especially in the Middle East, are backed by Iran.

64:03And it is the leading state sponsor of terrorism. And so when you have these groups have the ability to get a lot of the cash flow that they can get through illicit means, then they're just going to continue to proliferate and grow.

64:25And so I think that's one of the reasons why it's very important to go after the financing. Us in the CT Bureau, we do that not only through our designations authority to allow Treasury and others to be able to target those financing, but we're also helping build our partners' capability and capacity in order to be able to target these terrorist financing.

64:48You know, in the Old Testament, I read my Bible. Well I don read it enough but I a Christian but I do read the Old Testament probably more than I do the New Testament It always struck me that when they destroyed an enemy they destroyed the enemy I mean they just burn it to the ground I don't know if we're capable of doing that or not.

65:11We always seem to throw a lifeline to some of our enemies, and that seems to cause part of the problem, I guess. How can we, the US, when I say we, How can we sever ties between terrorists and their state sponsors?

65:27I've had this conversation with the president and I've talked about, you know, our military is our last deal. It's economics. It seems on the front end that we can cut a lot of these people off.

65:43Thank you for that question. I'm in Jeremiah right now, so I try to read my Bible also. The Old Testament is fascinating. So I always enjoy reading the Old Testament. But to answer your question, I think it's difficult to be able to do that.

66:03When it comes to Iran, again, they are the leading state sponsor of terrorism. I think we're doing Operation Economic Outcast. And so I think part of what we have to do to really dry up their finances is to work with our partners and our allies in order for them to go after their funding.

66:28And it's a whole of government approach. So we do what we can in the department. I know Treasury's doing what they're able to do and really leveraging the entire CT architecture to go after some of these, you know, this illicit financing.

66:45The IC's working it. DOW actually has the capability to also go after some of these financing. So it's tough, but that's something that this administration has been focusing on as a priority.

67:01Has there been an ideological shift in the terror landscape? It seems to me, I mean, you know, we always talk about this stuff hasn't changed since, you know, since the time of Christ or whatever, but it just seems to me that they get a little more advanced because of their weaponry but their savagery and beliefs don seem to change much Sir yeah I mean I think on some of these Islamic terrorist groups

67:35their ideology is the same. I think other groups might be more motivated by financial reasons. So I think it depends on what group. If you're looking at the narco-terrorism, which I think we rightfully have designated, the reason why they do operate is much different than why Islamic terrorists operate.

68:05I've run out of time, but I want to thank you so much. When I watch those videos of those dirtbags who rolled up terrorists, whatever you want to call them, they're criminals that rolled in on Gaza and just did horrific things to those poor Jewish folks.

68:23And, you know, it reminded me of my daddy was talking about in the Pacific with the Japanese, how they what they did in China and they did to some Okinawans and others. So I just doesn't seem there's any new sin under the under the sun.

68:38It just keeps recycling itself. Sorry, Mr. Chairman, went over.

68:43You're good. I now recognize for a second riveting round, Representative Moskowitz.

68:49All right, so now that you've hit your stride, let's talk about your favorite topic, right-wing extremism. I'm just kidding, we're gonna talk about ISIS. Yeah, and thank you, Tim, thank you for the end of your testimony.

69:08So obviously during the transition in Syria, right, as we were transitioning some of these detainees, some of them escaped. Do we have an estimate of how many of these high valued ISIS detainees, how many of them have escaped or how many of them are still at large?

69:28Let's say that.

69:31Thank you for that question. The intelligence community, I believe, has some estimates, but I think we would need to discuss that in a classified setting.

69:41Okay, is it fair to say that there are still people that were in custody that are no longer in custody?

69:51It is fair to say that.

69:52Okay. So, I mean, obviously, at some later point in time, I think that could be a good, I'm not gonna press you on that now, but I think that could be a good use of the committee's time to get a briefing on the current situation and what efforts we're doing, obviously, to remedy that.

70:17You know, let's talk about Syria in general. What is the current status of ISIS in Syria? We were We're making progress, no question about it. The U.S. had been involved in some limited strikes to help the new Syrian government.

70:37Are we, how would you assess it today? Are, is ISIS there now gaining ground again? There are some reports that they were losing ground, we were making progress, but now we're seeing some new resurgence in Syria.

70:57Thank you for that question I would say ISIS is still a problem in Syria From what I seen I don know if I would call it a complete resurgence I would say that the Syrians are taking this problem seriously, and we have seen them go after ISIS.

71:12And so we will continue to help support them in those efforts. I will say on the detainee issue, the fact that Iraq was able to take so many of the detainees. That was a good news story.

71:34They're in a safer place now that they're located in Baghdad. So I think the threat is still there.

71:45But do you anticipate more, probably more US military strikes in that area to assist the Syrian government?

71:56I would have to defer you to the Department of War on Military Strikes.

71:59OK but do you look at the that fair Do you look at the current threat threat level they needing more military assistance understand that will be made up to the Pentagon but in your assessment do you think you know is the situation such that you know you don't think more strikes are needed or that you do think probably we're gonna see the balance of the year more strikes there when it comes to

72:23strikes I would again defer to the Department of War I'm not an expert on on where we need to, on the strikes themselves. I would say when it comes to Syria, we are in a positive place.

72:37We continue to monitor it. We continue to do the hard work to support our partners and allies in the region, to include the Syrians, to include the Iraqis. We still have a military presence in the region.

72:50And so right now where we are at, I think we are more than capable to manage the situation that's in Syria.

73:00Okay I yield back Mr Chairman Thank you Thank you I thank Mr Borkert for the valuable testimony and the members for their questions The members of the committee may have some additional questions for Mr Borchert and we will ask you to respond to these in writing Pursuant to committee rules, all members may have five days to submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record subject to the length limitations.

73:23Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.