Federal Aviation Administration Oversight Hearing — September 15, 2026

05:55The subcommittee will come to order. Colleagues, today we welcome testimony from Brian Bedford, Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration. Administrator Bedford, as always, thank you for joining us today. Great to have you. We want a genuine partnership with you as you undertake the enormous task enormous task of modernizing our air traffic control system.

06:24I appreciate your leadership in deploying the resources this Congress has provided. The $12.5 billion infusion from the budget reconciliation package last year, combined with the resources this subcommittee has provided, has kick-started something historic – a generational rebuild of the national airspace system that has been deferred for far too long.

06:52We know this job is not easy. We are here to be a partner in the effort, even as we exercise our oversight responsibility, tracking progress against milestones as this multi-year effort unfolds. Our eye is on a common goal that benefits not just the traveling public, but the economy as a whole.

07:13If we all row in the same direction, we will build a truly modern efficient world system Any major multibillion effort carries a certain amount of risk Even if we encounter the occasional setback in executing something this transformative I know we can work together to right the ship.

07:38Next Gen fell short, as we all know. This effort cannot fail. I'm pleased that our Fiscal 27 Bill continues to provide the FAA with resources to modernize the system. The facilities and equipment funding in our bill, coupled with the reconciliation dollars, is giving the agency a strong down payment to make our aviation system the gold standard of the world.

08:05None of this works, though, without people. Hiring and retaining air traffic controllers remains one of our greatest challenges as a nation. I know your workforce plan sets real targets – 2,200 new controllers this fiscal year, climbing to 2,400 by fiscal 28.

08:25I'm pleased that you met your hiring targets last year, exceeding 2,000 new hires, but we cannot underestimate the challenge ahead in finding the best possible controller candidates and getting them into the facilities where they are most needed.

08:40Because of this, this committee has included resources in our bill to meet your fiscal 27 hiring goals and hope that fully staffed air traffic control facilities are an attainable goal in the not-too-distant future.

08:54Controllers are only part of the equation. The technicians, the engineers, and the specialists who install, maintain, and operate this new equipment are just as essential. And I'd like to know how the FAA is building that technical workforce alongside the Controller Corps.

09:12Air traffic control is not the only piece of this puzzle. infrastructure, runways, taxiways, and the ground systems that keep aircraft moving safely is just as high a priority for members of this subcommittee than as for the flying public.

09:28A modernized airspace system only delivers on its promise if the airports it serves can keep pace. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the infrastructure needs along with the technology upgrades already underway.

09:39Again, I want to thank you, Administrator Bedford, for being here and for the work you do and the work your team does every day to keep the traveling public safe. This is a big undertaking.

09:48I'm confident that with good faith and hard work on both sides, we'll get this right for the American people. That concludes my presentation. With my formal remarks, I now recognize the ranking member, Mr. Clyburn, for his opening comments.

10:06SECRETARY CLINTON, Chairman, Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and welcome, Administrator Bedford. I want to thank you for joining us today to examine how the FAA is advancing aviation safety. I appreciate your recent visit with me and our discussion on some of the technologies that can increase safety and efficiency in the national airspace system.

10:30Earlier this year, we discussed some of the administration's proposals to modernize the air traffic control system with Secretary Duffy. And while modernization is a priority for both sides of the aisle, I am personally concerned that staffing retention and air traffic control of pay continues to play out in the public.

10:52While your focus seems to be primarily on technology upgrades. System upgrades are certainly needed. However, modern technology cannot, and I might add should not, replace the FAA workers needed to safely operate within the modernization environment.

11:13I understand the FAA is forging ahead with $12.5 billion provided in the so-called Big Beautiful Bill. But the administration has not yet laid out a detailed plan or submitted a funding request to explain how you would sustain, let alone finish the effort.

11:34I expect to learn more from you today about how the FAA is managing its resources and to discuss more in detail its plan. The committee provided $96 million in the fiscal year 2026 bill to support the FAA's request to hire up to 2,500 new air traffic controllers.

12:02You have now reduced the 2027 target to hire only 2,300 ATCs. and a new ATC workforce plan changes hours and expectations for controllers. I remain concerned that these targets do not take into account challenges with academy success rates burnouts and retention issues and early retirements among our existing controller workforce These challenges are not new, but decisions on how to solve them cannot be made without the air traffic controllers' workforce and their union.

12:49The FAA's 2027 budget requests to fully fund facilities and equipment at its authorized level for FAA's Asian facilities and technologies, which I support. But we still do not have clarity on which systems are potentially being replaced with the modernization effort, or how the FAA workforce will be trained on new technologies.

13:22Meanwhile, American businesses, including manufacturers and suppliers, face uncertainty and increased costs as they are left in the dark. With the constant ships in tariffs, America is losing the confidence of our partners to deliver and improve air traffic control system and cost-effective aviation manufacturing.

13:52Tens of thousands of jobs across the high-skilled manufacturing and engineering fields depend under the ability of U.S. aircraft manufacturers and suppliers to access global markets on fair and reliable terms. This is especially true for manufacturing in my own district and home state of South Carolina.

14:20Our aviation supply chain system requires certainty from our global partners and the trust that we can deliver state-of-the-art transportation at our airports. This includes the modernization work already underway. Supply chain issues cannot continue to impede on reaching our safety goals and global competitiveness.

14:50Mr Chairman it is our duty on this subcommittee to continue to help the FAA keep our skies safe I look forward to working together to support robust investments in FAA technologies and just as importantly, in its staff and the workforce pipeline.

15:13I look forward to learning more about how we can all work together to support the advancement of FAA. And thank you for being here today, Mr. Bedford. I look forward to hearing your testimony.

15:26Thank you, Mr. Clyburn. Chair now recognizes the full committee chairman, gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Cole.

15:33Thank you very much, Chairman Womack, and thank you, Ranking Member Clyburn. Welcome, Administrator Bedford. It is genuinely a delight to see you again, and we appreciate you being here and are grateful for your continued leadership at the FAA.

15:48This is a genuinely excellent committee. I don't think we have any bad subcommittees, quite frankly, on the Appropriations Committee, but there's no question under Chairman Womack and Ranking Member Clyburn this. And just look at the members here.

16:04I mean, these are really serious members, quite frankly, and they do a good job. And at the end of the day, they generally find a bipartisan way to get things done. So you're going to find a committee that's engaged and wants to be helpful to you while obviously advancing the priorities of Congress.

16:21Good at the gate or on the flight deck, in the skies above, or just landed, your mission is clear, Mr. Administrator – safety, security, and efficiency. Congress is here to reinforce those key pillars and provide the investment and oversight necessary to ensure the FAA has the resources, workforce, and capabilities to carry them out.

16:42When we discuss safeguarding our national airspace, supporting U.S. aviation manufacturing, overseeing drones and advancing emerging technologies, I'm proud to say that this subcommittee does more than just talk about these priorities. We fund them, we oversee them, and we work to ensure America continues to lead the world in aviation.

17:03Earlier this summer, the House Appropriations Committee completed its work on the fiscal year 2027 Transportation, Housing, and Urban Development and Related Agencies Appropriations Bill. A strong measure, led by Subcommittee Chairman Womack, makes critical investments and the infrastructure, workforce, and innovation that keep Americans and our aviation system moving I was proud to support its advancement and the work done to ensure all 12 of our FY27 appropriations bills were reported out of committee Unfortunately we still waiting on the Senate to move their bills so we can go to conference and finish the job and I have no doubt that that'll be a negotiated product coming out of that committee and I think it'll be stronger for the fact that we reach at some point a bipartisan agreement.

17:47But we do need our friends in the Senate to actually do their work so we can go to conference and begin that negotiation. The men and women who depend on a safe modern aviation system should not be delayed because of partisan delay on the other side of the rotunda.

18:05Administrator Bedford, I don't need to tell you how important aviation is to Oklahoma. We're home of Tinker Air Force Base, Vance Air Force Base, and Altus Air Force Base anchoring military aviation in our state.

18:18notably Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma City, is home to the largest military depot in the world. And just up the road in Tulsa, the American Airlines Base Maintenance Facility represents the largest civil air depot in America.

18:34The presence and footprint of these major installations reinforces our strong commercial aviation presence and thriving general aviation community. And obviously, under your supervision, Mike Monroney is one of the premier facilities in the federal government for ensuring aviation safety, for training our air traffic controllers, and frankly, for doing groundbreaking research on the future of aviation.

18:58We're increasingly a hub for innovation that will define the next generation of flight, including unmanned aircraft flight. I was glad to see FAA and DOT break ground on the vertical takeoff and landing range this summer at Mike Monroney Aeronautical Air Center.

19:15This dedicated vertiport will let the FAA and industry partners test and develop procedures for advanced air mobility aircraft. I also want to recognize FAA's continued partnership with the Choctaw Nation. Our work under FAA's unmanned aircraft systems pilot programs has made Oklahoma a national leader in safely integrating drones into our airspace.

19:39I believe Oklahoma is well positioned to help land on advanced air mobility as that industry mature – lead, excuse me, on advanced air mobility as that industry matures. As this subcommittee continues to push for full year funding for the FAA and the rest of the Department of Transportation, safety remains our number one priority.

20:00Every decision we make on this bill is measured against that standard. So I look forward to your testimony today, Mr. Administrator, and I look forward to working with you and my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to get a final bill across the finish line before the end of the calendar year.

20:16Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. Thank you,

20:20gentlemen from Oklahoma, the full committee chairman. Administrator Bedford, the floor is yours. We know that you have some prepared remarks. Your full written testimony will be included as part of the record, and I'm going to yield the floor to you for five minutes so you can summarize for the benefit of our subcommittee.

20:36You're recognized. Well, thank you, Chairman Womack,

20:40and good morning, Ranking Member Clyburn and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the administration's $22.4 billion fiscal 2027 budget request for the Federal Aviation Administration. But first I'd just like to take a moment, I realize the families from Flight 5342 are gathering later this morning.

20:57I just want to make sure that they understand that that's why we're here. We're here to make sure that we're doing the hard work that's necessary to prevent an accident like that from ever happening again.

21:08So I just want to remember those that were lost and let them know that they're in our thoughts and our prayers. The core mission, as you point out Mr. Chairman, is to provide the safest and most efficient aerospace system in the world.

21:19That was the standard from the beginning, it remains the standard today. To meet today's demands and prepare the skies for tomorrow, we are focused on executing a rapid modernization of the national aerospace system, hiring and training the best people and embedding predictive safety analytics into everything that we do.

21:35Demand on our airspace is skyrocketing. Commercial flight volumes are forecast conservatively to grow by more than 40% through 2046. And alongside that, we'll see rapid expansions in commercial space launches, drone operations, and electric aircraft mobility.

22:02Yet our system today has remained reliant on obsolescent, decade-old technology, causing otherwise unavoidable delays and cancellations. Thanks to the leadership of President Trump, Secretary Duffy, in this Congress, you passed a historic $12.5 billion down payment through the Working Families Tax Cut Act And with that we are executing on the most ambitious modernization project of our time and delivering it in record time Over the past year we replaced over 64 of our legacy copper telecommunications network We've converted over 402 radio sites, transitioned 22 of our air traffic control towers from paper flight strips to electronic data stations.

22:50We've advanced surface movement radars at five major airports. deployed over 100 surface awareness systems nationwide. I want to recognize and thank our air modernization office for their amazing progress and continue to encourage their steady focus as we prepare for even greater deployments in fiscal 2027.

23:08Our fiscal 2027 requests supplements that initial twelve and a half billion down payment with an additional 1.5 billion from our annual F&E budget for vital safety improvements to air traffic control infrastructure. These funds will allow us to address important programs like our data communication modernization efforts as well as funding to start the critical work of upgrading our automation systems which will revolutionize how we can safely manage the growing air traffic demands for our country.

23:43The brand new air traffic control system is one of the most ambitious and critical infrastructure projects of our time, but updating obsolete and unsustainable infrastructure is only part of the modernization initiative. To ensure a resilient, efficient, scalable, and future-ready national airspace system, we also must modernize the traffic flow management systems, strategic planning tools, and deploy common automations with cyber-secure networks that tie it all together.

24:12We will accomplish this with four major foundational upgrades that will revolutionize how we provide air traffic services in the future. We will deploy commercially available technologies customized for the complex requirements of the largest and most challenging aviation ecosystem in the world.

24:31These upgrades will build upon one another to reduce and minimize delays and cancellations, importantly reduce controller workloads, and more importantly get the flying public to their final destinations safely and reliably. Our people are our greatest asset, air traffic controllers, technicians, safety inspectors.

24:52They on the front lines every day working together to ensure that tens of thousands of flights that we manage arrive safely to their destinations Rest assured we are addressing long controller and other safety workforce shortages.

25:08Currently we have over 11,000 fully certified controllers deployed in our 313 federal facilities with another 4,000 developmental controllers in the facility training pipeline, including 900 controllers who were already fully certified but are now recertifying in the facility that they've relocated to.

25:28After meeting our fiscal 2025 hiring target of 2,000, we have also exceeded our 2026 hiring goal of 2,200 additional trainees. And as you point out, our fiscal 27 budget request includes an additional $95 million to hire and train 2,300 additional controllers.

25:49Hiring is critical, but it's also important that we develop and deploy modern automated scheduling tools to improve our staffing efficiencies and reduce the needs for chronic overtime usage. Increased staffing, lower overtime requirements, and providing our controllers with better work-life schedules.

26:07Oh, and also importantly, investing in the quality of their equipment and the facilities that we require them to work in. These are are the factors that will significantly improve our controller's quality of life.

26:21Earlier this year, the FAA completed an agency-wide realignment to break down silos, enhance operational excellence, and increase transparency and accountability. Central to this strategy was the creation of an Office of Aviation Safety Management.

26:38This office unifies safety oversight intelligence and risk analysis that were previously spread across many separate FAA business units. We are coordinating holistic risk management strategy at the agency level now, eliminating those data silos and ensuring real-time access to agency-wide safety information and risk planning.

26:59This strengthens the agency's ability to proactively identify emerging safety trends and implement data-driven solutions. What used to take the FAA analysts months now can be done in near real time with significantly greater accuracy.

27:15However, there's still much to be accomplished. The administration's fiscal 2027 budget request continues to bolster our ability to use comprehensive data integration strategies to manage skies safely In closing I want to thank the 44 dedicated public servants at the FAA for their continued hard work and to Congress and the subcommittee for its continued bipartisan support.

27:38That initial $12.5 billion investment, yes, it's allowing us to build a solid foundation. The 2027 budget request now allows us to begin necessary follow-on funding to finish phase one. But let me be clear, if we halt the momentum now and don't accomplish the tasks associated with phase two of modernization, once again, we will see the system slip into higher delays, higher cancellations, and a less resilient airspace.

28:08So I implore you, let's work together to finish building the modern air traffic control system the American traveling public expects and deserves. I thank you for your support, and I really look forward to our conversation this morning.

28:21Thank you, Administrator Bedford. We will now begin our question and answer period. We will stick to the five-minute rule, so I would remind all of our members to confine your time within that five-minute period.

28:39We'll recognize in the order of seniority based on who was seated at the time that the subcommittee was gaveled in, and I will recognize myself to begin this period. Administrator Bedford, last year's budget reconciliation package, as we have all understood, had $12.5 billion, a down payment, as we call it, for air traffic control modernization, funding two of its major efforts that are now underway, telecommunications upgrades and the radar replacement program.

29:07Now, as of late August, our information says that 63% of the targeted legacy copper connections have been replaced with fiber, 5G, low-Earth orbit connectivity. And then on the radar side, procurement, early deployment work is now underway.

29:26And I recognize this represents real progress. I want to make sure we're getting full value for the taxpayer dollars already obligated. So when do you expect the copper to fiber and wireless transition to be fully complete?

29:36And is that timeline still on track?

29:41Yes, Mr. Chairman, that timeline is not only on track, it's actually coming into the left a little bit on our schedule. The original plan was to complete that work by December of 2027. The line of sight that we have through our integrated master schedule now looks at more September of 2027.

29:57Okay. Turning to radar. billion of that 12 and a half was going to replacing up to 612 radars by June of 28. Can you give us a quick update on where that stands? Are we having any supply chain problems along the way and are we

30:14still on pace for the 28 deadline? Well, there's a little bit of bad news there. There are supply chain issues that we are wrestling with and import issues and tariffs quite frankly. So there are issues there that have slowed us down.

30:26We would have actually been a little faster in our progress reporting in this quarter, except we've had two units damaged in transit. So that's slowing us down. If I'm being perfectly honest with you, I think we should assume that the schedule will slip from June to September of 2028.

30:40I hope we can recover that and bring it back in. But we are encountering some challenges there. How are you sequencing the prioritized work of this

30:53modernization program?

30:55So I don't know if you guys had a chance to parse through the GAO report. It's actually a wonderful document, so I would encourage everybody on the committee to thoroughly read it. We have a couple of issues we don't necessarily concur with, but we do have a advanced integrated master schedule that actually is now being run through Periton's agentic AI systems.

31:17And so we now can actually look at how we might change things around to see whether or not in real time that will pull the schedule closer or farther away. So we can, it's kind of like going to your optometrist.

31:27You know, we can keep flipping the switches and see whether or not we get a better or a worse result. So again, with the advent of the agentic AI systems that we're using now, this is why I can come and tell you some of the slipping that we're seeing on radars looks like it may put pressure on delivering that schedule.

31:46But we're talking weeks or months, not years. And yes, we will continue to look for ways to supplement our deployment to bring that back on time.

31:56I want to talk money for just a minute. If Congress does not enact another reconciliation package or supplemental for the modernization program we're talking about, it will be up to the facilities and equipment account to carry both the ongoing system modernization and legacy sustainment, which is going to be essential.

32:21We can't have a gap, as it were. Now we provided billion as requested by the President for F in this bill I think we had a kind of a standard of about three billion over time but you know we ratcheted that amount up That may be woefully insufficient to meet the resource needs to complete the program.

32:40So give me your thoughts on the resourcing requirements and whether or not F&E can handle it.

32:51Let me be clear, it can't. I mean, so I think one of the more underappreciated elements of the modernization project is we have to build a brand new system right next to the existing obsolete system.

33:04Because with over 18 million flight trajectories a year, nearly a billion Americans traveling every year, we can't allow the current system to have any downtime. So we literally have to build the brand new air traffic control system right next to the other and then methodically shift over from old to new.

33:24And I can certainly walk you through that. But we're sitting here today with the knowledge that if we stop now just building the infrastructure project itself and fixing the people even, two of the three pillars of modernization, got to get the people right, got to get the foundation of the infrastructure right.

33:40But the third issue is bringing the technologies that will revolutionize how we can move traffic and grow capacity in this country. That's another $10 billion investment.

33:50And I'm about out of town. I just want to ask you real quickly, of that $4 billion in F&E, assuming we get a bill passed, Mr. Chairman.

34:02I've done my part.

34:03I know you have. Of that $4 billion, can you give me a percentage of what is going to legacy versus what's going to modernization?

34:15Out of the $4 billion, we are earmarking 1.5 billion to go to modernization, which will allow us to continue doing the work right now on both the federal enterprise network system, that's the new data architecture that we need to ultimately get into the cloud, cyber secure, data capacity that we need to manage the NAS.

34:34So one and a half billion for that and to move the common automation platform forward.

34:40Mr. Clyburn.

34:41Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to change the focus here a little bit. You close on mention in safety, so I want to open my question in there. In response to the tragic collision of American Eagle Flight 5342 and the military aircraft DCA I believe the Senate Commerce Committee in May you told them that you've implemented 19 of the 33 recommendations directed to FAA.

35:24There were 50 overall, 33 through FAA. Now, the NTSB has now reviewed your responses, and as of yesterday, deemed 11 of your actions to be unacceptable, which may be not that unusual. However, it's my understanding that you sent a letter to NTSB on yesterday stating that you believe the FAA has effectively addressed several of the recommendations, including five that were deemed unacceptable.

36:14Now, do you intend to still work with NTSB to incorporate their safety recommendations into your actions?

36:22Well, let me just clarify. The 35, they actually last night said 10 of them were unacceptable. So I don't want to undersell it. So we have 10 items still out of the 35 recommendations that we are not eye to eye on.

36:34And yes, we will continue to work with the NTSB to find a resolution to those 10 issues.

36:38Are you saying rather than five, you have 10?

36:42I'm saying that the NTSB had 35 unique findings that they asked the FAA to address.

36:48Right.

36:49As we sit here today, we've addressed to their reasonable satisfaction 25 of the 35, and we have 10 that we have not. But do you still work on those 10? I think clearly we got a letter from them on the 10, and now we need to dig deeper and find out what exactly about our solution they didn't like and how are we going to bridge that gap.

37:10Yes, so we will continue to have engagement with the NTSB.

37:14Well, I appreciate modernization, but I think all of us appreciate more safety issues when it comes to this We have to do both Now the GAO reported issued a polling yesterday that confirms my problems or issues I shouldn say problems but issues with modernization According to this report, the FAA has not developed a detailed plan with complete cost estimates to finish this ambitious effort.

37:54And the estimates the FAA has provided do not include government release costs or any post-implementation operations and maintenance costs. Now, I do not question modernization. I'm all for being modern. But at this point, will the FAA develop a complete plan and present this committee with a fulsome look at the true cost of doing this job correctly?

38:24Well, first, just to correct the record, I want to thank the GAO. We asked them to come in and start this process. So we want transparency. We want accountability. So I am grateful that they came in early on this process and started this effort.

38:38Again, there's tremendously useful information in their report on just the magnitude of the problems, the challenges that we face in modernization. And again, I think it's instructive reading for every member on the subcommittee to go through this report.

38:52I've gone through it in great detail. And while I do not concur with the two findings that they made, we do have lifecycle cost estimates for the entirety of the project. And then we do have a highly integrated master work schedule, which I referenced earlier.

39:06So perhaps we need to get them back in and go through this one more time. But focusing on the stuff in terms of the dollars, you'll remember, I think, I wasn't here. So I'm going by what I've been told.

39:19When we first brought phase one of modernization, we were asking for $15 or $16 billion. And that got cut back to $12.5 billion in the Working Family Tax Cut Act. Guess what? It's costing $16 billion to do phase one, and we're funding that gap out of F&E.

39:37So I actually think the original cost estimates that we brought Congress were pretty darn accurate. We just didn't get the funding that requested. And so, yes, both are true. We are going to overspend the $12.5 billion to get phase one of modernization done.

39:53It's not true that we didn't have a correct estimate of what we thought that initial cost would be. Does that make sense? A little bit. Well, again, I'm new to this too. But we do have a fantastic plan.

40:07We're going to run over 11,000 modernization undertakings over the next two and a half years. So the agency is working its tail off to get this done and get it done right. The other thing that this report shows in great detail is the FAA has been at this since 1995 for over 30 years.

40:24And we spent over, the report says, $36 billion unfailed modernization efforts. So Chairman Wilmeth, you're right, we've got to get this right. And I think we can do that with strong bipartisan effort. And I welcome each of you, your staff, your teams, over to the FAA, to the Modernization Office, and you can see in real time what we're doing.

40:43So open book.

40:46Mr. Cole. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Stater, Bedford, your controller hiring targets are climbing toward 2,300 and beyond, and every one of those tradies, as you know, to pass through the academy in Oklahoma City.

40:57It's the gateway and we want to make sure it's not a constraint on you reaching the targets that you've laid out in terms of staffing. So is the Monroney Center appropriately resourced, that is classroom space, instructors, equipment, so that we don't hit a choke point surging training for both controllers and technicians?

41:22Well, thank you for the question, Chairman Cole. First, the Mike Moroney Center is a fabulous asset for the FAA, as you mentioned in your testimony or your opening comments. So we do more there than just train controllers.

41:36It is our logistics hub. And while sometimes I can be critical, you know, there's a lot of things I look at that we do at the FAA that we don't do particularly well that we can do better.

41:46but one of the shining stars is our logistics team at the Mike Maroney Center. They've been doing theory of constraints for over a decade, and it explains something to me. I think it's important for the committee to understand because it affects our budget, that $4 billion for sustainment, it's actually also to replace legacy infrastructure, but we haven't been able to afford to do that because the cost of the old legacy system is so extreme.

42:13We're spending the majority of our budget keeping the lights turned on. That technology is so obsolete, I don't even know how we do it. But the guys at the Logistics Center at Mike Maroney have figured it out So those guys are fantastic Classroom we full So we can put any more controllers into training than what we have now however through Secretary Duffy leadership the FAA has created 13 new certified training programs with local universities and colleges and those are creating new feeder streams for controllers that we can feed into our local facilities again

42:48you sort of touched on this but that one asked it made a little bit different way but are you comfortable you have the resources to actually modernize the training center itself as you said it's old it's got lots of problems they do a great job running what they've got but at some point it needs to change and again i know we've put a lot on your plate but having some idea in terms of long-term infrastructure what you need would be very helpful and how are we measuring up up in helping you in that regard?

43:18Well, I do think there is a lot of opportunity for improvement. If I'm being fully transparent, we have not looked at the curriculum for how we train a controller in over 30 years. And so while we're bringing in new technologies, unfortunately, we're training them to do an old way of business.

43:36And some of the things that we train them on, for example, we spend nine curriculum days training controllers how to do math to separate traffic when radar goes out. But the procedure is when the radar goes out, we simply move the traffic elsewhere.

43:50So there is no active controlling going on using math and controllers and slide rules. So there's nine days of wasted curriculum in my mind. So there's an awful lot of opportunity, I think, to improve the delivery of training and the curriculum enrichment that we're providing our controllers to make them more field ready to go out and do their on-job training in their facilities.

44:12As you know, there's considerable controversy sometimes around not only how we train controllers, but should we focus so much in one place. I mean, obviously, I'm parochial in Oklahoma. We think that's the right way to do it.

44:27So there's a common experience amongst the controllers themselves, a common set of instructors, curricula, what have you. What is your thinking on that? And are you comfortable with that approach generating again, ultimately the number of controllers that you need?

44:45Well, so in my prior life, you may have heard we've had pilot shortages. So in the pilot shortage world, we stopped relying on traditional feeder systems for us which were colleges and universities And we created our own vertical We created the largest privately owned pilot university in the country because we wanted to be self-sufficient.

45:06So I think Mike Maroney is similar to that. But we don't rely just on one training facility. So we build a core that we keep busy, because it's highly efficient. And then we supplement with feeder streams from other of these collegiate training programs.

45:21So I think Mike Maroney is critical to have an efficient training facility, but it shouldn't be the only training facility. We should continue to supplement with resources.

45:30There's a big difference between supplementing and duplicating, and I think that's the core of the issue from our standpoint here. I'm just being candid with you. If we're stretched to have the dollars to do what we're doing now, and we are, I don't think duplicating that facility someplace else, and we hear that idea in the Senate quite a bit, makes much sense and can turn to the resources we have.

45:53So again, I'm sort of out of time and running over we can have that discussion another time, but again, that's an important consideration for us. So with that Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back with thank you again and thanks again for coming out and spending the amount of time that you spent there.

46:13It meant a lot to our delegation. I know Representative Vice was there and Just having somebody, your administrative team on the ground was a huge asset to us and a big morale boost, quite frankly, to the people at the facility.

46:23So thank you.

46:27Well, it was enlightening for me too, sir, so thank you for inviting me.

46:31Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If it pleases subcommittee, I'd like to modify the order of appearance here on the Q&A to recognize Mr. Strong, who's got another commitment during this hour, and I told him that I thought we could recognize him a little bit sooner.

46:49So, Mike, if you don't mind just holding fire for just a minute. So without objection... As long as you give me 10 minutes. So without objection, Mr. Strong, you're recognized for five minutes.

46:58Thank you for the committee. I appreciate your consideration. Thank you, Chairman Womack, Ranking Member Clyburn for convening this hearing today. Administrator Bedford, thank you for being here. My district in North Alabama is home to the port of Huntsville, a unique multimodal complex that includes Huntsville International Airport.

47:15The Huntsville Airport integrates air, cargo, rail, highway connectivity to support critical supply chain for our national security and economic growth and is the only FAA licensed commercial space entry site in the United States Administrator Bedford multimodal ports strengthen our domestic supply chain and provide more reliable and efficient movement of critical goods and materials across our country.

47:41When the FAA evaluates infrastructure needs at an airport like Huntsville International, how does it account for its broader role as a part of a multimodal freight network supporting our defense industrial base and critical domestic supply chains?

47:58Thank you for the question, sir.

48:01It's actually a fairly laborious process. We're looking for airspace complexity. We're looking for the amount of demand that's on the system. We're looking for other ancillary effects to determine whether the infrastructure is appropriately sized for the market requirements.

48:19Building on that, Huntsville International Airport has consistently been recognized as one of the top small airports in the country, serving a fast-growing region with over 1.47 million pastures annually, and has the second longest runway in the southeast United States.

48:33Administrator Bedford, how is the FAA ensuring small and mid-sized airports have the resources they need to keep pace with rapid growth and increasing demand?

48:43Well, again, through the AIP programs and AIG programs, we have essentially through the budgeting process a pot of money that we are allocating to small and medium size. Otherwise larger airports frankly would just crowd them out in terms of their demand.

49:00So I think there's a very considerate look to make sure that we're supporting our small and medium sized airports and keeping them healthy. Of course, you can do more with more. So there's a lot of demand on those infrastructure dollars and not enough of them to go around.

49:21Does the FAA current, does its current funding criteria adequately account for growth when determining where resources are allocated?

49:29I'm not gonna say we can't do a better job because I think there, you know, we should always be striving to look for better ways to use data. We do have very good information in terms of current demand and one year out demand, we don't have great insight into demand

49:45much farther down the road. Airports need certainty in the federal approval process to plan and deliver major capital improvements, but I've heard concerns that federal reviews can sometimes take longer than the construction itself.

50:00What is the FAA doing to improve its review and approval process and eliminate unnecessary delays in airport infrastructure projects?

50:09Yeah, so, of course, NEPA and other environmental reviews are a popular topic. We're concerned about them as well. We're concerned about the time that it takes to do anything in the national aviation system.

50:23No matter where we fly, there's somebody beneath those airplanes. And those airplanes, unfortunately, even though they create less noise today than they did 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, they're not noise-free.

50:36And so as we try to increase capacity and drive more efficiency, meaning the constraint is the runway. It shouldn't be the airspace. We can create greater efficiency. But as we do that, we're moving noise around, and that obviously creates challenges for us in terms of the timeline that it takes to affect those changes.

50:55The Department of Transportation said it expects FAA license launches and re-entries to reach 10,000 annually by 2035. I commend the administration's focus on strengthening Americans' leadership in commercial space and ensuring our regulatory and transportation infrastructure keeps pace with the industry's rapid growth.

51:16The FY2027 THUD Appropriations Bill provides additional funding and hiring authority to accommodate increased commercial space operations. Given the increased support and engagement from both Congress and the President, can you speak to the current average time to process a launch or reentry license and how the new DOT Space Task Force will play a role in breaking down regulatory and operational barriers facing the commercial space industry?

51:48Well, if I'm being perfectly honest, sir, we're behind. We should have been hiring five years ago in order to fill these positions to manage the tempo and cadence of the launch request that we're seeing today.

52:00So I would say while it's moving at about 2x the speed it was moving two years ago, it's still probably too slow for SpaceX and Blue Origin and companies like that. I don't know that we'll ever be, unless we get same-day service, I don't know that we'll ever be as fast as they want us to be.

52:17But the overarching issue is maintaining safety. I mean, we need to understand where these missions are going

52:23and how they coming back and keep American public safe Thank you Mr Chairman I yield back and thank you for your patience You bet Thank you Mr Quigley Thank you Mr Chairman Administrator thank you for being here As the co of Quiet Skies Caucus and the fact that O is in my district I'm well aware that aircraft noise isn't just a nuisance.

52:48As you know, study after study is now showing that it actually has physiological harm to people particularly senior citizens one of the reasons when we did FAA reauthorization in 2020 form we created the aircraft noise advisory committee we are almost two years since we did that two years past the deadline which we were supposed to stand that up so my recent letter to you there was a response but it still didn't have a timeline so we're other than we're getting to it so we have we have closed the committee we respond we

53:30closed the committee application process on August 10th and we are reviewing with the Department of Transportation committee members so I do think we're going to have a resolution on that very quickly you know and for years we have

53:42looked at what level of noise is acceptable, right? There is a standard that best could be described as what was arbitrary, and I was concerned that we created that in the sense that we didn't want to create a standard based on science and health that we couldn't meet, but it still matters that that we know what that risk is.

54:06Have you had a chance yet to start to look at that in terms of what are acceptable levels of noise over an extended period of time because as you know it's an average.

54:18No sir, I have not. I'm not going to tell you that otherwise I have not looked at the noise levels.

54:24So this is me officially asking you to to do that because the two are obviously related. Back to O'Hare being in my district. It's more than that. It's still now and again the busiest airport in the country.

54:39and that's important not just because it's important to Chicago but it's such a vital part of our aviation system and if it's not working well the whole system suffers which is why it should have at least some priority in terms of as we address the staffing issues It is 65 staffed and as you know we got people working overtime for years that are getting burned out and I understand they're offering bonuses and trying to get people it's still sort of just shifting the burden across the country but we built this we have a runway we hardly ever use which would help because there isn't sufficient staffing at that particular tower.

55:19I'm asking all this is the preface to the fact that part of the way we tried to address that staffing issue was a 3.8 percent pay increase. They're getting one. This can't supercharge the plan to dramatically increase.

55:36It has to, and I would see it discourage. It would have to be for someone who wants to do this or or someone who's currently doing this, it's sort of showing a lack of concern about the stress that they're under, financial and otherwise.

55:54Why hasn't this happened yet? Why haven't we given our controllers this pay raise that we voted for?

56:04Well, I think you had four questions in there, so let me try to pick those up.

56:08That last one's probably the most important one.

56:10Well, they'll go hand in glove. The architecture of the Chicago O'Hare Airport requires us us to staff three towers during peak periods of operations. So in the budget supplemental that we've been discussing, how can we build one tower to replace three, which would significantly improve our staffing resources?

56:27The systems that we operate in Chicago aren't interoperable from one tower to another. They're designed to have a single tower. So when I send resources to the second tower, they don't have any tools in which to efficiently dispatch traffic.

56:41So I mean, just the architecture of the system is the big part of the problem there. So we should address that. Second issue, as it relates to design, if we had modern airspace design, we wouldn't have to do miles and trail 20 miles over Chicago and back in order to sequence traffic.

56:59We could sequence that traffic at altitude and then do power off descents into the terminal environment. So we can get double wins here by reducing workload, sequencing traffic at top of descent, and reducing noise significantly while driving traffic efficiency, all with modernization.

57:16Can I beg you to pay raise part?

57:19As far as the pay raise concerns, let's be clear. I have the utmost respect for our air traffic controllers. I value the work that they do As a pilot myself I rely on them So I am grateful that we have them up there We are supercharging the hiring I will correct one thing for the record They did get the 1 federal pay increase in January They also have their contractual pay increase of 1.6% that they got in June.

57:38So as far as the 2.8%, gosh, I could quote you the actual language of the statute, but Congress asked me to look for ways to improve staffing efficiency. That's what you asked me to do.

57:58And if we could get it, then we would do the 2.8%

58:01as part of that.

58:02And we have not been able to.

58:04Respectfully, you seem to be put in a condition on something that we passed by what you just said.

58:08The condition is the condition that you put on it, sir. I can find the language and read it to you.

58:14Was it a condition that you could do something else and not give them the full 3.8%?

58:20Well, the language says specifically that such a judgment has been implemented such that all employees to the extent the administrator determines in his sole discretion that improvements in workforce scheduling, staffing, utilization, or other operational efficiencies are achieved.

58:36Well, I'll close. If they heard what you just said, they wouldn't think that you're showing them the full respect. Show them the full 3.8% to show their respect to what we need them for.

58:48Thank you, Mr. Quigley. Ms. Bice.

58:50Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And first of all, let me say thank you, Administrator Budford, for visiting the Mike Monrony Aeronautical Center. As Mr. Cole mentioned, it's incredibly important to Oklahoma, and we appreciate the students that are training there to keep our skies safe every day.

59:07The goal for 2026 was 2,200 trainees to go through the academy. We've exceeded that number, and I think it's impressive because there were only a little less than 1,600 trainees that went through the academy just two years ago under the Biden administration.

59:25So thank you for focusing on ensuring that we are increasing the number of trainees that are coming through. Secretary Duffy and President Trump have prioritized air traffic safety and continuing to invest in the future of aviation, so we're very appreciative.

59:42I want to just circle back quickly about a comment that Chairman Cole made in regards to expansion of training facilities. I want to make clear, I have not heard you say, and I want to confirm that, you are not looking to build a second training facility.

60:00facility in the country, is that correct?

60:02We have no plans to build a second training facility.

60:05Perfect. Thank you for clarifying that. There have been some discussions about potentially retiring the RNAV systems to include ILS systems at two airports in my district, Shawnee Regional Airport as well as Wiley Post Airport.

60:20And I just want to say that with the 2028 Olympics coming up, we're hosting multiple events in Oklahoma City in the 5th District, I would strongly discourage retiring these systems because we would like to keep them for redundancy purposes to keep pilots and passengers safe.

60:36So I want to make sure I touch on that. Moving on to actual questions, I've been briefed on a couple of activities that could accelerate and ensure that cutting edge technologies like high power microwave systems can be tested safely within the United States.

60:54What additional authority or resources does the FAA need to expedite those efforts?

61:00Well, so today, as you may be aware, we have, I assume you're talking about counter UAS systems? Correct, yes, sir. We have nine test facilities for UAS systems. We would like to turn those into both UAS and counter UAS, and I think we could stand to have more than nine.

61:16I think the demands on these training facilities are pretty significant. So I think the country could benefit in terms of innovation and designing these systems if we had more resource available to test and train in.

61:33Do you feel like the current FA authorities will sufficiently allow for live testing at third party ranges? For example, we have the Emerging Aviation Technology Center in the Choctaw Nation in Oklahoma. Do you feel like there's any changes that need to be made from an authority standpoint to continue to expand those?

61:49Well, my understanding, and I'll qualify that by saying it is my understanding, is that we have pretty strong discretion in terms of what we can do on the ranges. I think what we, again, want to make sure is whatever testing we're doing there does not interfere with any active aviation services that we're offering.

62:07You mentioned you'd like to see more than nine. Is there some sort of limitation that's prohibiting you from expanding that number?

62:12Yeah, the current statute caps it at nine.

62:14So there is a statutory change that needs to happen to be able to expand?

62:18if we're going to increase the number of ranges, not necessarily what we do on each range.

62:22Okay Perfect The FAA safety data transformation challenge showed that AI can identify and mitigate safety risk across the NAS Given the recent concerns about AI how are you ensuring that new technology that being incorporated keeps decision-making to the skilled air traffic controller's hands?

62:44Yes. So I realize this is a topic of popular conversation right now. AI comes in many shades, from machine learning or AI enabled. The way the FAA thinks about the use of AI is a decision help tool, not a decision replacement tool.

63:03So we're not taking humans out of the loop. When we look at AI that we're currently using in our safety foundry platform, essentially what we're asking the AI to do is go look at the entirety of data and you tell us if you're seeing trends or correlation or causation that I can't see.

63:21And it is fantastic at parsing through terabytes of data and bringing things to us. We don't then say, oh, the AI says to do this. Let's go do this. It brings us back the data.

63:30And then we apply human intuition and oversight to it. So again, it is a fantastic decision support tool. And it will be revolutionary when we bring it into the national airspace system.

63:44Administrator, thank you for what you do. Thank you for focusing on making sure that we continue to keep our skies safe and without Mr. Chairman, a yield.

63:53Thank you, Ms. Bice. Ms. Watson-Coleman.

63:55Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Administrator, for enlightening us in many ways, particularly as it relates to the modernization of infrastructure. I am concerned, however, with regard to your response to the Congressman's question regarding the 2.8 pay raise.

64:12pay rates. And I think that what you described is almost a catch-22 situation. You want more efficiency. You don't think they've met that efficiency. You don't think that they're working as effectively. But then you say you're understaffed.

64:23They say that they're working six days a week, sometimes 10 hours a day, sometimes even more, and then have a responsibility to do training. They're contending that the morale in the agency is very bad and that you seem to be operating it as if you're a corporate bottom line person who is concerned about money and that what I concerned about because I concerned about safety and I concerned about respecting the work that the air traffic controllers should do to keep us safe And I wanna know why in your discretion because it is solely your discretion, you have not given them the 3.8% increase.

65:12It just seems like a very modest request for employees that's so vitally important to our wellbeing.

65:20Well, ma'am, in full transparency, I am trying to honor the language that's in the bill.

65:25The language that's in the bill is that you are the one that has the, excuse me, sir. You have the discretion to give these 3.8% increases. It is in your discretion. So what are you trying to honor?

65:44I'm trying to honor the language that says, operational efficiencies are achieved that will contribute to addressing workforce shortfalls

65:51and enhancing aviation safety. So it is your contention that you don't have operational efficiency while you have understaffing, overworked individuals that are responsible for the safety of air traffic. Is that what you're saying?

66:10What I'm saying is I lean into the data. I know you're listening to a lot of anecdotal information that's coming back to you. But the data will tell us something entirely different.

66:20So I'm you know what I'm concerned about. You may look at data, but I listen to people. And if I hear consistently that the people that we as Congress are supposed to protect are being negatively impacted, that the people responsible for our safety in the airways are in fact depressed and overworked and have mental health issues that aren't even being addressed appropriately.

66:45I listen to that. When I hear it more than once, and I hear it in more than one distribution of information, I recognize that it's more than just anecdotal. And so I ask you right now, what specifically would it take for you to give this 3.8% increase to these individuals, and what are you going to do to help them to be in a position to receive it?

67:17And I want to know when and what.

67:21Well, the answer to your question is in the 2026 workforce plan So it I ask you the question You give me the answer Don tell me to read something Just give me the answer The answer is respectfully sir Yes the answer is over the last 15 years we seen the efficiency of our controller schedules decrease from five hours on position to under four hours on position.

67:41And I don't think that makes sense to me. I think we can schedule our workforce more efficiently to get back to where we were 15 years ago.

67:51How long have you been in this position?

67:5314 months.

67:5414 months? What? Okay. You're not going to answer this question, so let me just share with you what I think. I think that the complaints that I'm hearing from various avenues are legitimate. I think that the morale in the agency is very low, and that's very concerning to me because of the work that they're responsible for doing.

68:21I think that the fact that people are walking away before even spending all the time that they could to accumulate full pension is something that has to do with why we have delays in Newark Airport, why we have delays in other airports, why O'Hare has delays.

68:40And I think that we are not looking at, or this administration doesn't value the work that people do on behalf of the country and behalf of the safety and security of our nation. And I think that you need to look down and talk to those people that you are in charge of and you need to have a better understanding of what their concerns are and how you could improve the morale there as well as the safety and security in our airspace.

69:13Respectfully disagree, ma'am. If we want to improve their morale and I yield back. We'll hire them, continue to hire, and we'll put them in facilities that don't look like a junkyard. So why don't we invest in building facilities for them where they have plumbing and air conditioning and working elevators.

69:31So yes, let's get adequately staffed.

69:34That too. But let's move on it and let's deal with the human aspects of what's happening.

69:39I've been over three dozen of our facilities in the past 14 months. Yeah, well, then let us do what we're expecting you to do.

69:46to do.

69:47I'm doing exactly what you wrote in the law, ma'am.

69:50Gentle lady yields back.

69:52Ms. Torres.

69:54Thank you, Chairman. And welcome to our committee. Thank you. Administrator Bedford. My office sent you in advance some of my concerns, so no one is surprised. As I was sharing with you earlier, I proudly represent the Ontario International Airport.

70:14Fifteen years ago, the airport didn't have local control, or the local people did not have control of their airport. So I made it my mission when I came to Congress in 2015 to figure out how we can get back to owning, the locals owning that airport.

70:33And with the help of Representative Ken Calvert, we accomplished that in just over a year when I first got here. There are three appropriators that represent that region, Representative Aguilar, myself, and Representative Calvert.

70:52And we're very committed to ensuring the economic growth of that region. So I want to, first of all, I want to invite you to visit the airport and the region and really assess for yourself and maybe your team can help us assess the needs, the growing needs of the region.

71:13Since Ontario took, or the locals took, local control of the airport, it has supported 24,000 jobs. It added $5 billion to the regional economy. Passenger numbers have nearly doubled to more than 7 million passengers.

71:33And my favorite part is that you can still get from the curb and through security in about a quarter of the time as any other airport in the region. Ontario is one of America's busiest cargo airports and an important piece of the national supply chain, which is why I co-lead the bipartisan air caucus, air cargo caucus.

71:58This past year alone, I was proud to be able to secure $33 million in catch-up dollars because during the time that we did not have control, all of that slowed down. There was no airport improvements that were being done.

72:15So, Mr. Bedford, Ontario is an excellent example of what a growing airport looks like. It is well managed. And again I want to invite you I want you to commit to me today I think that an easy commitment I be happy to To send your team and to come out and visit with us so that you can see the challenge that we have before us Thank you for that.

72:39We'll follow up with you. I recently met with our air traffic controllers in just a little different approach. I have tremendous respect, as you do, and admiration for the work that they do. It's really critical work.

72:54The FAA classifies the Ontario air traffic control facility at a level five. The classification does not reflect the operational complexity of the airspace, which includes 24-hour operations, complicated overnight traffic and cargo demands, and leaves our air traffic controllers with less pay, less training dollars, and lower priority for technology upgrades.

73:22And it's those technology upgrades that I'm also critically concerned about. The towers should be reviewed and reclassified so our air traffic controllers are properly recognized and given the resources that they need in order to maintain the experienced personnel that we need in the region.

73:43As you're very well aware, because of my most recent complaints to the FAA, We have a lot of training schools in the area, and suddenly with the tax opportunities for private jet owners, we have a whole new group of people that are training in the area.

74:03That area is very busy.

74:04It's very busy. So again, I hope that you would reconsider looking at that category five that they have been put into, and that we could improve the staffing level for that airport.

74:20So just by way of background, those levels are collectively bargained. And the last time they were collectively bargained was just as the Biden administration was leaving. So that was December of 2024. The contract was amended and those levels were reassessed.

74:39And when, it doesn't make sense to me how an airport that creates that much work in the region, and it is such an economic engine, would have less staff than a little airport that is right next to my home Laverne Bracketfield Well that shouldn the level sets the pay it doesn set the staffing

75:05So I'll take a look at that.

75:07Okay, thank you, I appreciate that. I'll yield back.

75:12Mr. Rutherford. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bedford, thank you for being here today. And I wanna talk a little bit about a general aviation airport in Jacksonville, Florida, which is in kind of a unique situation.

75:28As you may or may not know, following the decision by the 1993 BRAC Commission, they closed Naval Air Station Cecil Field. And that airfield was decommissioned in 1999 and was transferred to the Jacksonville Aviation Authority.

75:47However, it proudly remains critical to a variety of national defense, particularly the Fleet Readiness Center Southeast. And it plays a critical role in federal counter narcotics operations, the HITRON from the Coast Guard, the helicopter interdiction tactical squadron that is stationed out there, flying both the MH-65E and the P3s out of there.

76:19They have over 200 personnel there. And their tempo is very high with the interdiction that we're seeing in the Caribbean now. So they are truly meeting the needs of the Department of War and the Department of Homeland Security.

76:42And it's becoming a major military maintenance repair center, as I mentioned, with Fleet Readiness Southeast. and we see these operations just continuing to expand. And in fact, CECL played a critical role, you may know, in staging area for the aircraft that went to Venezuela during that great operation snatching Maduro out of bed.

77:10Now, CECL, as you know, CECL has a very large infrastructure. They have one 12,503-foot runway. It was actually used for space reentry even with the shuttles as a standby Then it has an additional three 8 foot runways With all of this work that going on yet because it a typical it not your typical general aviation airport it really is more of a military airfield but it isn eligible to compete for grants And so what I'd like to ask is if we could work with you and your staff to look at some, maybe some type of way that we can expand the grant opportunities to help maintain the runways, the aprons, the taxiways, because it is a massive effort.

78:14And I'd like to know if the FAA, if you all would be willing to help us with that.

78:21So I think there are two, perhaps three things we should talk about. First is I think we believe that airport should be eligible for AIP, but it will have to apply. So there's probably some education that we need to do to make sure they understand what is available to them.

78:37Second issue are workforce grants. So if there really is workforce development that's going on, whether that's aviation technicians or construction. There may be things that we can do there from a workforce grant perspective.

78:49I think we're close to issuing $26 million in workforce grants. We have another 40 that we can issue going into the next fiscal year. And then finally, as I understand, CECL is a contract tower, not an actual federally-owned tower.

79:04We do have a program that looks at smaller towers that are federal contract towers, not FAA-managed towers. We have two that we're working through that process now, Mesa Gateway and Bozeman. This might be an airport that should have a look at to see whether or not it should move from a contractor tower to a federal tower.

79:25Okay.

79:26Thank you very much. We'll get with you and talk some more about that because it really is a critical need out there. You mentioned the copper wiring. You're at about 64% now, I think.

79:38Sir. Yes, sir. your comments today. Can you talk just a little bit about if we are in the success that you may be having with already integrating, because of the fiber optics, the high-speed cable you've already been able to.

80:00put in. Is that, have we removed all of the visual separation of helicopters and commercial

80:11flights now? So the, in response to the safety data that we were seeing earlier this year, in March we issued what's referred to as a general notice, and the general notice prohibits now employing visual separation as a means of practical separation between two traveling aircraft, helicopter and a fixed wing aircraft, in Class B airspace arrival and departure corridors, and Class C airspace arrival and departure corridors, and any place where we have a terminal radar approach capability.

80:46So where we can separate traffic with actual controllers and positive radar separation, that is the requirement now.

80:53OK, good. My time's up. I yield back. Mr. Aguilar.

80:58Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Administrator, thank you for being here today. I am a district adjacent to Ms. Torres, so we appreciate you committing to come out to visit the region. You were just talking about AIP with Mr. Rutherford, and we're thankful that the FAA has awarded recent grant programs, recent AIP dollars to the region.

81:22Investments like these keep our airports safe and competitive, boost our economy, and support good-paying jobs for the region. I hope we can count on the FAA's continued partnership to ensure this program remains fully funded and to be able to get funds out the door quickly.

81:38I wanted to turn to another issue I've raised previously that would benefit the region. Last year, I asked your predecessor for a status update on the implementation of legislation that I carried, the Disadvantaged Business Enterprise Supportive Services Expansion Act, which was incorporated into the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024.

82:00this law directed the FAA to create a disadvantaged business enterprise program to give minority and women-owned businesses a fair shot at competing for local airport contracts. Do you have a status update on this?

82:09I know the administration has attacked programs like this in the past and I just want to tell you how important it is for businesses to have an opportunity to compete for federal resources Could you share the status of the disadvantaged business enterprise program at the FAA Well in all honesty I rather go back and get more knowledgeable about it I do know that

82:38the administration has gone through sort of a recalibration of its processes and priorities. I believe that is done now so I should be able to give you a better response than what I'm able to do right now.

82:48Just a reminder this was legislative

82:53language here so I understand you know that so this you know carries the the weight of law so understand that you might need to get up to speed on this and I talked to your predecessor about this as I mentioned but would welcome an opportunity to talk with you about this in the future as well after you follow up with your office I appreciate it administrator last November the DOT The DOT withdrew a Biden-era proposed rule that would have required airlines to provide compensation, meals, hotel, and transportation for cancellations or delays of three or more hours due to factors within the airline's own control.

83:35Airline-caused delays and cancellations stemming from crew scheduling or maintenance issues frequently disrupt millions of Americans' travel every year, and American consumers foot the bill. In response to Ms. Watson Coleman, you said that you were driven by data.

83:52The data of your own agency showed that 60% of the delays, of long domestic delays, were airline-caused, not weather or air traffic-related. Why rescind the rule?

84:05I really can't speak intelligently to that. I'm not involved in the DOT assessment on those sorts of issues. I mean, I can speak to modernization or workforce staffing or anything FAA related.

84:18Did they ask you or the FAA anything related to the rule?

84:22I couldn't say. Me personally, no, but I don't know if they asked somebody else at FAA. Sure, sure.

84:28Do you think that it's fair for the American public to pay for the delays? I really don't have any.

84:37You're a pilot yourself. You're a consumer. The data that I've seen would indicate that between weather and what air traffic control service has caused, that is the vast majority of delays in the system today.

84:49That's not what your own data says, though.

84:51Well, we should compare notes. So we've got a second takeaway.

84:54Back to you on the small business re piece and then we compare the data on delay causals Sure I welcome it You said that you were guided by data so I just like to know if that if that true or not If your agency own data was the subject for the Department of Transportation to make a decision, I'd be curious to know what data you folks were looking at.

85:11That's fair. I look forward to the conversation. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Yield back.

85:21Mr. Joyce, you're recognized for five minutes.

85:26Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Administrator.

85:33Good morning.

85:34Unauthorized drones continue to pose a potential threat to critical infrastructure, imposed military installations across the country, including the possibility that hostile actors could use drones to conduct surveillance or facilitate an attack. Given that the FAA manages the national airspace system while DHS, DOJ, and DOW have varying authorities to detect and counter these threats, how is the FAA coordinating with these agencies to ensure unauthorized drone activity over critical infrastructure and military facilities is quickly identified and addressed?

86:04Further, are there any gaps in FAA's current authorities, technology, or interagency coordination that are preventing the federal government from effectively deterring and responding to these threats?

86:14Well, thank you for the question. It's certainly top of mind these days. I will tell you today we're coordinating much better than we were a year ago. So the president and his team have a significant line of sight on drones.

86:28And it's an interesting policy choice that we're in, because on the one hand, we see tremendous commercial opportunities for drones and the convenience that they can bring for the American consumers. I mean, imagine seniors who can stay at home and have medicine flown in real time right to their door.

86:48And we're seeing over a million drone operations per month just in Dallas, Fort Worth, and it's expanding across the country. So on the one hand, the president would like us to unleash American drone dominance, to onshore the production and innovation on drones, which we can then, of course, see the military applications of these.

87:07So let's onshore that innovation here in America. And so unleashing commercial drone dominance will unleash drone innovation. Of course, if we have one bad actor, we have some folks who are ignorant of the law.

87:23Today the law requires drones to stay out of sensitive areas sporting events things of that nature But even at World Cup where we had a massive oversight on it we still had 700 people operating drones where they shouldn't have been out of ignorance.

87:41So I think that's the number one issue that we face, is someone flying a drone where it just shouldn't be.

87:46As long as all 700 could be presumed to be ignorant.

87:50So we caught all 700 of them.

87:53Good.

87:53And so law enforcement, we do have means by which we can identify the operator of the drone. But what we're really worried about is the nefarious actor who isn't playing by the rules. And so for that, we need a different form of surveillance on the southern border.

88:08We created a buffer, five-mile buffer across the entire southern border. We've created space for a counter-drone capability that has been deployed now and certified by or validated by FAA to operate under the auspices of both military and Department of Homeland Services.

88:26So in the short answer, we recognize the threat. The federal government recognizes the severity of the threat and is taking action. I think we could move faster. Again, it wasn't being actioned under the prior administration, so we are working rapidly to catch up with where the technology is.

88:43But I think we've got the right line of sight on it. We've got the right team within the administration across all agencies focused on it.

88:52Well, sir, when an unauthorized drone is identified operating over military installation or other restricted critical infrastructure, what steps do you take to investigate and enforce against the operator? How many of these incidents have you referred for civil enforcement or criminal prosecution?

89:07And what penalties are currently available to deter individuals or potentially malicious actors from repeatedly violating these restrictions?

89:14So I can't give you specific numbers. We do have them, hundreds, dozens, thousands. I'm not sure what the specific number is. But yes, we do have electronic conspicuity on drones. They're required to broadcast.

89:29They broadcast on mobile channels. Law enforcement is able to obtain those broadcasts to identify who the drone operator is and actually locate the drone operator. So we are referring those for prosecution. I'LL HAVE IT.

89:46ONE LAST ONE, AND THIS IS ONE AT HOME, YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. AN ISSUE AT LAKE COUNTY EXECUTIVE AIRPORT INVOLVING RUNWAY 23. THE AIRPORT IS CURRENTLY OPERATING UNDER A NOTAM THAT LIMITS THE NIGHTTIME instrument approaches and airport officials have indicated the faa has told them that no tim can be removed once the required nighttime evaluation the runway is completed the airport has been working to get that evaluation scheduled but has had significant significant difficulty getting that date set on the calendar given this appears to be the last remaining step can i ask you to help me in making sure we can get that done in short order i can't even get my hometown ils certified

90:26I'm not sure. I'm going to be a lot of help there, but I'll take it back and we'll see what we can do.

90:32Thank you very much for your time, sir.

90:33Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

90:35Mr. Shreve.

90:37Thank you, Chairman Womack. Administrator, I'm the newest member of the subcommittee, but I served on T&I and the aviation subcommittee. And so we had an opportunity to visit a time or two on subject matter, including drones that we wrestled with.

90:56mightily on Aviation Subcommittee. I'm a Hoosier, as are you. I represent part of IND, the Terminal and the FedEx infrastructures in Indiana's 6th District. And so in the vein of Mr. Joyce's questions, the commercialization of drones in a distribution-based part of America is a great big deal.

91:25Indiana is in a drone corridor. The, on the issue of the drone infrastructure inspection grants, I mean, drones have been a material advancement in the utility of inspecting America's built infrastructure. We don't have to have old bell helicopters running along utility lines and so forth.

91:48And we're wrestling with infrastructure maintenance mightily. TNI committee and here on THUD. But there's this grant program that Congress authorized in 24. I was not here then, but funded as part of the 26 fiscal year DOT appropriation.

92:08I was here. And DOT, I believe FAA is involved in the administration of that program. Is that accurate?

92:18I'll be honest with you. I'm unaware of it.

92:21Oh, okay. to get aware of it All right If you don know would you please find and report back on what the department and FAA is doing to ensure the swift implementation of the grant program for this fiscal year fiscal year 26, as this committee considers program funding for fiscal year 27?

92:46I will do so. I would appreciate that. Also in the vein of drones. beyond visual line of sight, BVLOS, not a familiar acronym to a lot of people, but can you share how the department and the FAA has revised the BVLOS proposed rule to ensure that lifesaving public safety operations, already happening at scale, today across America will not be negatively implemented?

93:19I can. I mean, the BV loss is, as you can imagine, it is a foundational bill in terms of how we're going to reconcile good drone use versus bad drone use. It wasn't initially intended to be that.

93:33It was intentionally intended to be a good drone use. But we want to future-proof that now by making sure that we've got the right sandbox around how drones will operate in a way that we can easily identify bad actors and mitigate those threats.

93:44So that That rule's taken a little bit longer to get out, but I think the reason for the delay is common sense. It is a rule that has got a lot of eyesight all across government right now.

94:00And some of it is, we're not quite there, but we're working our way through it. As it relates to law enforcement, they will have primacy. They will have full unfettered access to airspace. Other drones will stand aside as law enforcement taking care of their first responder obligations.

94:22I want to circle back to the close to controller staffing.

94:26Sure.

94:28You updated us on that earlier in your remarks, but taking it close to home in Indianapolis, IND, Mario Rodriguez, our friend, is actually out here, I believe, today with our state chamber board. The shortages, the acute shortages that we've wrestled with in the New York, New Jersey airspace, play right on through to IND and Columbus and other secondary mid airport markets I wrestle with it as a consumer Can you offer as best you may an updated timeline to getting the controller staffing in the New York, New Jersey airspace up to where we've got to get to before so it doesn't directly acutely affect airspace such as IND?

95:22Well, so first of all, let's all acknowledge that the controller workforce shortage is a decades-long problem. This isn't something that the Trump administration invented. We inherited a really poor hand and we're playing that hand out the best we can.

95:35You've provided budget for us to supercharge hiring. Thank you for that. And we've taken that budget and we've hired over 2,000 people in fiscal 25. Another 2,200 are in the door as we speak.

95:44Another 2,300 are We're already in the identification and onboarding process. OK, that's fine. Great. You're doing all the hiring that you can. There's a lot of work between hiring and then training someone before they can actually dispatch traffic.

96:03And yet there's another effect of whether we can get them to go to New York. That is the most difficult place in the national aviation system to staff. I'm not sure why, but we've got to figure that out.

96:18So even if I could fully staff the NASS, I can't make people go work in New York. We've got to figure out why. I don't know if it could. And shame on me, I haven't been there yet.

96:30So in full disclosure, that's on my to-do list before the end of the fiscal year.

96:35Administrator, I appreciate that and can understand that. I don't think a lot of people realize that our controllers have to retire at age 56, which certainly adds to the challenge.

96:46Well, they don't have to. So you can ask for an exemption, and the secretary can grant an exemption, and he has granted exemptions, and he's added, I think, a $30,000 a year incentive for controllers to stick around longer.

97:04But, yes, after 25 years and at age 56, you can retire with a full pension. I appreciate it. I yield back.

97:12Mr. Siskamani.

97:13Thank you, Chairman Womack, and thank you also. Mr. Bradford for being here with us today and spending time with us answering some of the questions on the the priorities of the FAA I actually would like to start off by saying that I would love to have you in Arizona so you can see for yourself some of the great investments Can we do that in February What was that Can we do that in February I was going to invite you in August to see how committed you really are.

97:39But, yes, I think you can be picking this spring as a good time to be there. And actually, it wouldn't be a bad timeline given some of these investments and these projects and what we can do and what state they will be in.

97:52So the first one I want to bring up to you is the Pinnell Air Park, our traffic control tower. This is a key one for us. I want to thank you and the FAA for accepting the Pinnell Air Park into the federal contact tower, the FCT program.

98:09As you know, the air park supports more than 100,000 commercial and military flight operations each year, making a new tower a major investment in the region's aviation safety economy and military readiness as well.

98:21I was able to secure $1.6 million in the FY27 T-HUD bill for the initial stages of the tower construction. This is an area in Arizona that is growing exponentially right in Pinal County. It's in between Tucson and Phoenix.

98:35So this is an area where a lot of people work, a lot of people are moving in as well. More traffic there. Could you walk us through the next steps for the local and the regional airports across the country, and specifically this one, the FCT program?

98:47Well, so the FCT program, I think, is a wonderful way for us to look at emerging airports and provide them with control services that otherwise they wouldn't qualify for a federal tower. So in doing so, as we create more contract towers, we're also creating another workforce feeder stream, you know, because as they gain experience in the contract tower program, they then become eligible to transfer into the Federal Air Traffic Control Services organization.

99:19So I think that actually there's multiple benefits there. As far as where my heart is, if you look over the last 25 years, we've seen a continuous decrease in service to small town America.

99:34And it's unfortunate because driving is certainly much less safe, much more expensive, I think, and less convenient. And so being able to reconnect small town America to the nation's air transportation system, I think, has to be one of our key priorities.

99:50Aside from safety, aside from efficiency, we want more people flying. And we want them to be able to fly with convenience. We used to have service in South Bend and Evansville. fort wayne and i mean that we've lost service in so many places terreau it's unfortunate through the increase of advanced air mobility electrified you know small aircraft again i think this is going to be our opportunity to reconnect a lot of small town america safely and efficiently to the national air transportation system so i think that's a place where we really should lean in

100:21great well thank you i was just right before this actually as they walked in meeting with some of the folks from home and the regarding the tucson tucson airport as well the tucson international airport and the tucson airport authority so on that my my next question is uh the the tucson airport authority which is in the middle of an airfield safety enhancement project program project while the airport has been fortunate to secure significant grant funding which they're very grateful for the uncertainty has been difficult as they plan uh the various faces moving forward.

100:52As you know, the FAA engages in letters of intent in various projects, but not airfield safety projects. So what prevents the FAA from entering into letters of intent for airfield safety projects? And could the FAA enter into letter of intent with airports that outline its financial commitments, particularly for multi-layer projects and multi-year projects such as the airfield safety enhancement program which can take up to about 10 years to

101:25complete? Yeah so I'm not thoroughly versed in how letters of intent work with individual airports. I'm aware we have executed one with Tucson for I think 175 million dollars so we I know we do them and we do them in ways to be collaborative but I think sitting here today the funds that we do get through budget are finite.

101:46I think we have $4 billion in our AIP program. Over 400 airports want access to those funds. They're segmented between small, medium, and large hub airport. So again, we try to get the money out the doors efficiently and as quickly as we can, and respect the constraints that the legislation requires.

102:05Right. So that letter of intent has been helpful in the planning phases of it. When it comes to safety projects, sometimes that doesn't seem to apply as well. So I'm interested to know what the reasoning behind that, what could be done, and what are the options there.

102:20I'm out of time, so we can talk that offline. I'd be happy to.

102:22If we have a safety issue there, I'd sure like to know about it.

102:24Sure We love to work with you on that Thanks Chairman He be back Thank you That completes our first round And I going to extend the subcommittee hearing briefly And if any of the members remaining have a follow-up question they'd like to ask, be thinking about that right now, I'd like to do kind of a lightning round.

102:47And let me begin. Administrator Bedford, I want to turn to your efforts on new automation software that I've seen demonstrated. It's fascinating. In June of 26, your agency awarded a 12-year contract for the Flow Management Data Services Platform, FMDS, and the new strategic management of airspace routes and trajectories, the SMART capability.

103:17As I said, I've looked at it. To me, it's fascinating. And you're also pursuing a common automation platform to replace aging systems that track aircraft, ERAM and STARS to be specific. Give us your thoughts on these platforms, your vision and timeline for getting smart and capped, developed and deployed.

103:41And how does this fit in the broader modernization program?

103:47Well, thank you for the question, Chairman Womack. I think this may be the most difficult element of modernization to actually wrap your brain around. Because when we talk about phase one, which is all infrastructure, it's tangible.

104:02We can see whether a tower is being built. We can see a radar being installed. I was at Newark two weeks ago with the secretary. We were literally dropping the crane with the new radar, surface movement radar in place.

104:13So we can see it. We can see trenching and new cabling. and stuff shows up at the facilities, the redesign of the actual traffic management systems, that isn't something that we generally see. But if you do go to our facilities, and I would be happy to go there with you if you're interested, what you'll see is really old stuff that our controllers are using.

104:37I mean, it hasn't changed in 50 years. Even though we've modernized, we had a modernization effort in the 1980s, we kept the interfaces exactly the same as they were in the 60s. That's the thing that really has to change.

104:50We have to rethink entirely the tools that we have. And the good news is these systems exist today They scalable the architecture nimble and we can put them in the cloud where we can get unlimited compute power and make sure they cyber secure So lots of benefits of moving from what we have today which is 313 separate air traffic control systems.

105:11You think of this as an integrated system, it's really not. We have 313 individual air traffic control systems. Okay, the positive of that is when one goes down, like Minneapolis Center went down, I don't know, maybe six weeks ago due to a power outage.

105:28Not an FAA power outage, but a city power outage. But it brought our center down. In Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Minnesota went dark. No coverage, no airplanes moving. The rest of the world, the rest of the system continued to operate.

105:45But the point is, those systems are so fragile that any one of them could go in op at any time versus having the ubiquity of cloud-based services where even if something's happening locally, I can simply transfer that data to a place where I do have power and I can continue to manage traffic.

106:04So three things. We've got to bring the systems into the 21st century. We've got to bring our controller interfaces into the 21st century. And we have to bring our data architecture into the 21st century.

106:18Today, all the data is local. So the New York data is in the New York Center, and nobody else can see it. Now, the smart system that I demonstrated for you earlier, we've taken a different data source, all the ADS-B data from the NAS.

106:34It's infused into that system. So I can see more today on my iPad than any controller can see in the entire National Aviation System. That's how archaic the tools that we currently have are.

106:47So I do implore you for this second round of investment, this is what will really supercharge our ability to safely grow traffic and reduce the workload and strain on our controllers.

107:00So if you can do that with your iPad, why do we need air traffic controllers? Can't you just run it all yourself? That was a facetious question. Yeah, sure. Didn't get any laughs.

107:11We have layers and layers of safety. And at the end of the day, the human is the final, Yeah. Layer of safety. And sadly, we've seen where that's failed. And we don't want to have to rely on human separation.

107:23We want these systems to be able to do it for them But we need the human there in case It going to require more money too This second phase which arguably is the most important phase is at least another $10 billion.

107:37Mr. Kleiber.

107:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me get back to this. Mr. Administrator, I've been here for over three decades, but I spent about three decades as a manager of people governmental entities and as i read the legislation on the pay raise the intent was to put air traffic controllers on park with law enforcement that was intended at 3.8 now the discretion that was given to you had to do, I think, with improving the environment and the folks, I suspect, you may be having trouble getting people to work up in New York because of their pay.

108:34And so it would seem to me if you give them their pay raise that we give, I don't think the law gave you the authority to squeeze more work out of overworked, overstressed workforce.

108:55So it would seem to me that this pay raise question, you're taking some discretions not intended in the law, certainly not intended when Congress approved, It was to put them on par with other people doing similar work.

109:16And I know a little something about being underpaid and overworked. So I think you're taking the stress and that was not intended. Thank you for that.

109:28Mr. Spice.

109:32Thank you, Mr. Chairman, to follow up on the line of questioning, you mentioned in your earlier testimony that that you're concerned about the number of hours that are being logged by air traffic controllers.

109:46There's a discrepancy that you're trying to track. Is that accurate?

109:49Well, so today we don't track controller time unless they're physically separating traffic. So on an eight hour shift, they come in, and they do work when it's assigned to them. And then when there's no work assigned to them, we don't know for sure what they're doing.

110:07And that's not to say they're not doing work. We just don't know exactly what that work is, because we don't actually punch time cards or keep track of it. But we can tell with the data that we have is we can tell that 15 years ago we were operating many more hours on desk than we're operating today.

110:27And so we've seen a consistent decrease in the amount of time on position today and an increase in overtime usage. And that, I think it's, we should be curious why that is. We should ask questions, because that's what we should do.

110:42That's what you pay us to do. So we're asking questions, and what we're seeing are schedules that are very inefficient, where I have controllers in facilities with nothing to do. And I prefer to have controllers in facilities when there's actually work to be done.

110:57That's what we're trying to, and this isn't across the entire FAA. This is really limited to about 40 facilities across the country that need a deeper line of sight. And all I've asked our union partners to do with us is work with me to look at those facilities to see if we can improve those schedules.

111:14I yield.

111:14That's all I've asked. I personally just don't, I can't wrap my head around time on station, or whatever you call it, going down and overtime going higher. Those are the facts. Help me understand why I can't wrap my head around that.

111:33What, sir? Is it management? Well, it may be, but let's talk about that. If we're doing a bad job of managing the workforce, let's figure that out and fix it. So I'm not absolving management here.

111:45Yeah. We absolutely may be the problem, but I'd like to work with our labor partners to figure that out. Yeah. Very good. Ms. Torres.

111:53Thank you, Chairman. And I just want to encourage you, maybe this is a roundtable, off-camera meeting, that we need to have maybe a follow-up with the administrator or the staff. There's so many issues that we want to address.

112:07Right now, I want to talk to you about preempting state laws. Multiple court rulings and Supreme Court precedent have made it clear that the FAA does not have the authority to overrule the state and local laws Congress intentionally did not grant this authority under the FAA reauthorization or other laws But despite this the FAA recently proposed a rule allowing the FAA to overrule and preempt any state and local meal and rest break laws, limiting flight crews or flight attendants' ability to be well rested.

112:46I was on a flight a week ago from California to DCA. It should have been a five hour flight. It took us 10 hours to get here. We were over DCA air for 30 minutes.

113:00Smart system will help.

113:01Yes, before we ran out of fuel. And when we ran out of fuel, we had to divert to BWI. We couldn't get off the flight there. For the first time all year, I checked in a bag so I was trapped, I couldn't get off without the bag.

113:19My concern is for the violent interactions that we are seeing more and more between the passengers and how they abuse some of the flight crew. We need them to be in the best spirits that they can possibly be and denying brakes because it's more efficient or better for the airline is certainly not the experience that I want to have.

113:45The more patient that these flight attendants could be with these aggressive passengers the better off and the safer that we will be. By the way, Ken Calvert was on that flight with me too.

114:04Anyway, what can you do to ensure that we are abiding by the local state laws rather than pre-empting them? Well first of all I'm not a lawyer and I'm not

114:16going to pretend to be a lawyer. I do believe that if our our law team believes this is something that is relevant to assert our authorities, that's what they're doing. So I have to trust that the legal team actually knows what they're doing and there's purpose behind it.

114:30As far as rest breaks are concerned, we highly regulate through the FAA the amount of duty rest that's that's required for the flight crews. So I think we concerned when we see state law preempt what our regulatory authorities require That where we feel like we have to throw the flag on that And if that ultimately requires a court of higher jurisdiction to arbitrate that dispute, so be it.

114:57But we do have the authority to regulate crew duty time limits and mandatory crew rest. And that's what we're protecting.

115:05My time expired, but the courts did not agree with that yet. So we can have a longer conversation on this.

115:11I think this is the first time we've actually asserted our authority. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Torres. Mr. Siskimani. Thank you. Thank you for this extra opportunity.

115:22There was one more thing I wanted to bring up on the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024. On the bill, it included federal funding for airports to convert from the AFFF mandated by the FAA to be used by all commercial service airports to F3 and properly disposed of the PFAS containing forever chemicals.

115:43The Tucson Airport Authority has acted in good faith and converted from the AFFF to F3 foam at a cost well over $600,000 right now. In addition to the airport purchasing two new Panther fire trucks and replaced the tank of their rapid intervention vehicles.

115:59So they're doing all that they can on this. Can you provide me some insight on the reimbursement process of this since they haven't seen it yet of them and the other airports that have complied with the foam transition?

116:12and they're still not seeing the reimbursement? And when can airports expect the financial relief from the funds they have expanded to address the environmental concerns?

116:22Yes, that one I can address. While all of the system processing with the airports has been accomplished, there is no money in the budget to fund reimbursement. So this will have to be a unique line item that Congress will have to give us budgeting dollars in order to do reimbursement for.

116:41And it's not just your airports, sir. There are hundreds of these airports that require or are seeking reimbursement for funding. We just don't have any money for it.

116:50What's a ballpark figure of the funding necessary for the reimbursements?

116:53Let me go back and get more intelligence before I give you that number, but I'd be happy to share that with both you and Chairman Womack and Ranking Member Clyburn.

117:04I would be very interested in getting that and advocating for that. It I know that it going to mean airports have done this expecting to get reimbursed and we should address that immediately So thank you Chairman I yield back You bet Thank you Administrator Bedford for being here today

117:21We appreciate your time and your testimony. We may have some members that would like to submit some questions for the record. All we ask is that the agency respond in a timely fashion. Members, please submit any questions for the record to subcommittee staff within seven days.

117:36And with that, this subcommittee hearing stands adjourned.