Women in Sports Senate Judiciary Hearing - Title IX, Athlete Eligibility, Safety & Competitive Fairness - September 23, 2026

00:00Welcome everybody. We're here to discuss today how we can empower women and protect girls in sports and the impact of men competing in women's sports. that were never thought about when Congress enacted Title IX.

00:37The Democrats held a hearing on transgender issues in 2023, including whether biological men should play in women's sports. While they were the majority of the committee, During that hearing, Democratic witnesses could not answer this simple question, is there a difference between men and women?

01:08Further, their witness, when asked if in sports a biological male has an advantage over biological female, they answered, I don't think so. So today, the Democrats are choosing to let their two witnesses seats go empty.

01:32That says a lot. Regarding whether it is fair for men to compete against women in sports, they were wrong on that issue in 2023, and they're still wrong. Women's sports is an important issue.

01:50For decades, I personally supported women's sports. I've attended hundreds of women's athletic events at my alma mater, the University of Northern Iowa, like women's volleyball last Friday night when we beat Wichita State. I attended the Friday and Saturday highlights of the Iowa State girls basketball tournament for 39 years until 2018 I cheered on girls and women in my family who compete in sports We in Iowa are very proud of our own Caitlin Clark I'd like to meet her sometime.

02:40I recently spoke on the Senate floor questioning WNBA's treatment of her and continue to monitor that situation. Girls and women are playing sports in record numbers. Today, more than 3 and 6 tenths million girls play high school sports.

03:07More than a quarter of a million women competed in college athletes in a 24-25 season. Iowa has had high school women's basketball since 1928, and until 1993, they used that silly formation of women on women, six on six, three in one half of the court and three at the other half of the court.

03:41That went out in 1993, and we're better off for it, but at the time, I thought it was a crucial mistake. Before, by the way, Texas and I think Texas and Iowa were the only ones that played women's basketball or girls' basketball that way.

04:00Now before Title IX, only 1 in 27 girls competed in sports. Now it's 2 in 5. And this number doesn't even include participation in club sports, recreational leagues, and other community sports teams. This raises important questions that society must contend with.

04:28Why is it important to preserve women's sports for only biological women? What is at stake? Studies and testimonials prove that girls' participation in sports has many benefits that should not be taken from those girls.

04:51High school girls involved in sports get higher grades They graduate at a higher rate than girls who don play sports Sports is part of the solution to many of the mental health challenges that our kids face We know from data that girls who play sports have more confidence and less depression.

05:09They have more positive body image and their overall psychological well-being is better. The benefits to women of playing sports are very long-term. A 2023 survey found that 69 percent of women who earn more than $100,000 per year and are in leadership roles previously played competitive sports.

05:45Additionally, 85% of the women who played sports say the skills that they developed were very vital to success in their professional careers. I don't, just a minute, I'm sorry. Another study from 2018 found that 94% of the women in C-suite positions played sports, more than half of which competed at the collegiate level.

06:2180% of the Fortune 500 female executives surveyed said that they played sports in their earlier years. Not to mention, playing sports has led to a record number of women holding top jobs within the sports industry, such as athletic directors and coaches.

06:42Being a former player, as well as familiarity and interest in sports, is often a prerequisite to getting one of these high-profile, high-paying jobs. jobs. This is the data. I don't understand why anyone would support seismic changes that reduces the number of biological females who have the opportunity to compete in sports.

07:09Now, many sports, leagues and clubs have required women to cede their places on the podium and trade their gold medals for participating trophies I remember the picture of the lady that tied somebody a biological male in some swimming meet It was a tie.

07:46She was obviously the winner if it hadn't been for the advantages of male strength. And when they were standing on the podium, they insisted that the male be able to hold the trophy. That's outrageous.

08:07But that's a remembrance I have of just some of this discrimination. Biological women should not be asked to accommodate men who, for reasons of identity or otherwise, choose to compete in women's category instead of men's or co-ed category.

08:27Women were asked to get the vote, to participate in professions, to serve on juries, get credit cards in their own names, and so much more. Women should not again be asked to cede their opportunities just to make men comfortable.

08:54Now, biological men want to play in women's leagues. The timing is suspect. This is all happening just as watching women's sports is becoming a national pastime, rivaling that of men's. This is also happening right as women athletes are making gains, just as professional women's athletes are beginning to be paid a living wage.

09:25Just think what Caitlin Clark has brought to women's basketball. When she started out, they were getting less than $100,000 a year. Now I understand their salaries are near $400,000 a year. Probably still not enough.

09:43Now is when men want to compete on women's sports teams. This isn't a coincidence. By allowing biological man in, it rips away opportunities, steals accolades. denies scholarships and takes professional careers away from women and girls.

10:08It is just not fair. Let's be clear, allowing biological men to play in women's sports breaks the promise of Title IX. It takes a hard-won opportunity away from women. It goes backward, ripping the promise of American dream from women to once again give it to men.

10:34This hearing isn't about gender identity. It is about whether it is fair to women, for biological men, to compete against them in women's sports. or to take the podium from them or to take the job from them or to take the career from them or to make endorsements and opportunities to be sports professionals.

11:06It may be tempting to talk about other issues surrounding transgender men and women today, But let's be clear, this isn't the purpose of this hearing. It would be a disservice to female athletes to delight or merely gloss over this topic to talk about men.

11:32When the other party chaired this committee, one of the first hearings they held in 2023 tried to justify coddling men by letting them unfairly compete against biological women. I'm glad that we can revisit the issue of men playing in women's sports from the correct perspective.

11:55The public agrees with us, not with the other party. 73% of the Americans are uncomfortable with transgender athletes competing on sports teams that do not match their sex at birth. 66 of the adults favor a law or policy that will require trans athletes to compete on teams that match their sex at birth I am pleased some of the folks who testified and attended that hearing are joining us here again There are also other brave women athletes in the audience and if you'd like to stand and be recognized I'd be glad to have you do that.

12:41Thank you very much. Thank you all again for joining us and standing up for women everywhere. Now, Senator Durbin. Mr. Chairman, if you ask the American people, what are the priority issues you hope Congress will address as soon as possible, the issue of this hearing would not be in the top 10, maybe not the top 20.

13:11People are concerned about the cost of living. They're concerned about the ability to pay for the college education of their kids. They're concerned about their utility bills. They're concerned about their grocery bills. They want to know what we're doing about it.

13:24The president has dismissed these concerns and said he doesn't want to talk about affordability. He hates that democratic word. Well, it's more than a democratic word. It's a word that really typifies what the American families are thinking about, and they're not thinking about the topic of this hearing today.

13:42If you ask people where we should be focusing, if we want to help children and make sure they're protected, I think they'd start off by saying, how are we going to get these damn cell phones out of their hands?

13:55How are we going to reach the point where they have a conversation at the kitchen table with their family? How are they going to pay any attention to what's going on in school if they're hypnotized by these cell phones?

14:06We took this issue on because young people and their families are being exploited today. The social media firms stonewalled and tried to keep us from doing anything. We have passed several major bills on a bipartisan basis in this committee to protect children from the harms of the social media platform.

14:29But for some reason, the bills never move on the floor. The control of floor traffic is in the hands of the Republican leader. I've spoken to him personally. I've spoken to the chairman. This is a really high priority, and you'll find it on the top 10 list of how to keep our kids from being hypnotized and exploited by these social media giants.

14:52We had a hearing when I was chairman several years ago and the hearing invited the CEOs of the major companies We had the CEOs from Meta Alphabet TikTok and Snap And I hope people remember that hearing.

15:07It was a good one. Strong questions on both sides of the aisle, Democrats and Republicans. Moments that are still remembered by most of us who were there on that day. Why aren't those CEOs back again?

15:21Have we solved that problem? Certainly not. It is still a threat to our families and our children. Instead, we're talking about this issue. The committee should take a look at many issues like artificial intelligence.

15:36But a new one came up this week that I think, although it's just this week that we've seen it, it's worthy of our concern. This is a letter which Senator Grassley and I received from a Republican senator, a colleague of ours, John Curtis, Republican of Utah.

15:52Let me read the first paragraph. Dear Chairman Grassley and Ranking Member Durbin, Trust in our government institutions continues to fall to near historic lows. According to the Partnership for Public Service, only 27% of Americans have trust in their federal government, while 72% say it is corrupt.

16:18There are many reasons for this, but an important one is the perception that those with close proximity to political power are provided with opportunities, access, and treatment unavailable to ordinary Americans. Senator Curtis goes on to say that concern should not depend on which party controls the White House.

16:38What Republican Senator Curtis has proposed is that we have a hearing on the lavish wedding gifts given to Donald Trump Jr. in his recent marriage on some island somewhere. The donor of those gifts was a Russian oligarch close to Vladimir Putin.

17:00Think about that for a second. The son of the President of the United States has a wedding reception, paid for in part at least, by a Russian oligarch close to Vladimir Putin. Is that worthy of a hearing?

17:15Do you think the American people believe corruption belongs on that top ten chart? I think they do. And I'll have to say this. I think Senator Curtis showed real courage in asking us to do this Now the argument that we don have time we too busy belies the fact that as soon as we finish this session which could be as soon as this week we be gone for six weeks We'll be back in our states for six weeks.

17:36Certainly in that period of time, there's time for a deposition or a hearing on this issue of corruption at the highest levels of our government. And let me make this bipartisan. Senator Curran also wants to make sure Hunter Biden is at that hearing.

17:52I want to read to you Hunter Biden's response. I say, bring it on, Hunter Biden said after reading the Curtis letter. I've already given more than seven hours of sworn testimony. More than three dozen witnesses testified across two chambers.

18:06I had no foreign business dealings while my father was president. None. I painted paintings and I still do. I'll sit next to Don Jr. and testify anytime, anyplace. Eric and Jared can join us too.

18:18No need for a subpoena. Let's all do it tomorrow. So we set the stage for a hearing on corruption at the highest levels of our government. That is certainly in the top 10. Let me also say that we've had hearings, several hearings on issues related to the jurisdiction of this committee when it comes to college athletics.

18:43In a prior hearing, the president of the NCAA, Charles Baker, former Republican governor of Massachusetts, told me when I asked him under oath that there were more than 500,000 NCAA athletes in this country, over 500,000, according to Mr. Baker.

19:04Of that number, he said fewer than 10, fewer than 10 were trans. We can all agree that we want to be fair and safe in women's athletics, but this vendetta against a small number of people in the trans community affects everyone, including cisgender girls who can be subject to inappropriate gender verification checks.

19:28If Republicans actually want to stand up for women in sports, and I do, they should listen to more than 400 athletes who sent an open letter to the NCAA Board of Governors. Let me read from it.

19:41Although trans-exclusionary efforts claim to protect women's sports, in reality they fail to address any of the real documented threats to women in sports. Namely, these women athletes wrote, unequal pay, failure to uphold Title IX, rampant sexual abuse, and harassment of women and girl athletes and lack of equal resources for men's and women's teams.

20:07I hope my Republican colleagues are willing to discuss the lack of access to comparable facilities and resources for women's sports and the fact that women's sports are far behind men in terms of compensation and revenue distribution.

20:22I hope they will take note that about 21 percent, 21 percent of female athletes globally report experiencing sexual abuse as a child in sports. 21 percent, but only 7 percent, report this abuse, meaning there are serious gaps in safeguarding women and girls and ensuring accountability for abusers.

20:44If we're going to have a constructive conversation about women's sports, then we must demand honesty and compassion. Anything less is a disservice, including categorically treating every trans athlete, no matter their age or level of competition, as a threat to women's sports.

21:00Research from the Trevor Project found that, quote, LGBTQ plus young people are too often placed at higher risk for suicide, not because of who they are, but as a result of mistreatment and stigmatization.

21:15This committee should not participate in that marginalization of any children in this country. For these reasons, I refuse to treat this hearing like a responsible exercise of this committee. I will not ask questions.

21:29The minority did not call any witnesses. I hope that one day we can return to the important work of conducting oversight. Let's deal with corruption at the highest levels of our government. Let's deal with these social media platforms who are exploiting children, male and female, across the United States.

21:44that's in our legal jurisdiction that should be our priority if the audience will be patient I'd have two responses to what were just said the chair the ranking member knows that on these child safety bills that we have an agreement that they're going to be put in the defense authorization bill and and let that get that done that way and then the other one is I think I should respond to what he said about the Curtis letter because I get the impression that you get a letter on Friday and you supposed to schedule a hearing the next week on the request of the letter to have a hearing And everybody who knows that anybody that done investigative work it takes a lot of background work if you going to have a productive hearing And just as background so you know that I'm not afraid to call the president's son and even investigate Hunter Biden.

22:53In 2017, when I was chairman and Senator Feinstein was a ranking member, we jointly investigated matters relating to the Russian hoax. As part of that bipartisan investigation, we interviewed Donald Trump Jr. and other Republicans.

23:12We made our work public. In 2019, Senator Johnson and I began our Biden family investigation, which very much included Hunter the Son. It continues to this very day. And indeed, just last week, we made public two FBI documents.

23:32Those documents summarize statements from FBI sources and the alleged Biden family criminality. Ranking Member Durbin supports another investigation into Donald Trump Jr. Yet he and my Democratic colleagues in the faces of years of overwhelming evidence to include authentic bank records have ignored every allegation against the Biden family.

24:01In fact, Democrats have attacked and sought to undermine both my and the House investigation. by the Democrats definition, his side has been complicit in covering up the Biden family and deeds. My Democratic colleagues only want to investigate Trump and his family.

24:24My colleagues on the other side of the aisle can't maintain credibility when they pick and choose for political purposes who to investigate. I've done the bipartisan investigative work, the track record I just described.

24:40Dating to 2017 speaks to itself now would you please rise? So I can swear as we do traditionally within this committee Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you about to give this committee Will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God Affirmative response by all Now I going to introduce the witnesses Kim Jones she currently serves as co and leader of the Independent Council of Women Sports Ms. Jones played tennis at Stanford University where she earned All-American status in both singles and doubles.

25:28She was three-time NCAA runner-up, played on a pro tour, represented the United States at the World University Game. She earned her undergraduate and graduate degree in mechanical engineering from Stanford. She has worked in both tech and agriculture.

25:46Ms. Jones has been a lifelong advocate for women in sports, serving as the Stanford Athletic Board and working with various sports organizations, athletes, over her career. She is also a member of the NCAA Division I athletes, or a mother of four NCAA Division athletes.

26:11Next, we welcome Karlie Smollek. Miss Malik was four-year starting goalkeeper for San Francisco University women's soccer team where she earned an all-Pac-10 academic team honors, helped lead the team to three playoff appearances, and a Pac-10 championship.

26:31In 1999, she was selected in the inaugural draft for the Women's Professional Soccer Association in 2001 where she attended the Nets for San Diego Spirit and the New York Power. She is also a decorated Australian rules football player in the United States Australian Football League.

26:56She won four national championships as a player and coach of the San Francisco Iron Maidens, including earning two national VB awards as center half forward. In addition to club football, she represented the USA Freedom National Team in the International Cup in Australia in 2017.

27:21Ms Smolik was named to the USA Freedom National Team 25th Anniversary All Team Now we have Bill Brock Bach Mr. Bach is a sports lawyer partner at Kroger Gardas and LLP and that is in Indianapolis He served for eight years as NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions, resigning to protest over the NCAA rules which permit men to compete in women's sports.

28:06Mr. Bach is currently lead counsel for dozens of college athletes in court, challenging rules of the NCAA, college athletic conferences and universities have harmed women athletes. During the 2007-2020, he was general counsel for the U.S.

28:23Anti-Doping Agency, where he led investigations and prosecutions of doping in sports, including serving as lead counsel in the case that stripped Lance Armstrong of seven Tour de France titles and banned multiple support staff on Armstrong's team from the sport for life.

28:56Mr. Bock currently serves as Special Advisor Anti-Doping to the Office of National Drug Control Policy in the Executive Office of the President. We welcome all of you and we'll start with Ms. Jones and go across the table.

29:12Thank you very much for being patient to get here where we are right now. Thank you, Chairman Grassley and committee members. My name is Kim Jones. I'm the co-founder of ICONS, the Independent Council on Women's Sports.

29:30ICONS is a network of thousands of Olympians, professional, collegiate, and high school athletes and sports policy experts committed to ensuring women and girls have fair and safe competition with a sex protected category. Icons was established after the world watched male athlete William Leah Thomas take an NCAA national title from women.

29:53My children were directly impacted by this as I watched my daughter and her peers, Race Thomas. I saw amazing female swimmers forced aside by a man in their sport and marched into locker rooms where a man could be undressing and watching them undress.

30:10After a lifetime in sports, I could not believe my eyes. Watching the powerful force of athletics become an institutionally sanctioned humiliation ritual for young women and simultaneously rip the backbone out of men. This story continues to be repeated countless times across the country for grown women and young girls alike.

30:35To date, ICONS has consulted with dozens of national, international, and professional sports organizations on policy. We work directly with female athletes and back three federal lawsuits against the NCAA for violating the rights of women.

30:50In our work, we begin with understanding the difference between male and female. There are over 6,000 genetically expressed differences between males and females that affect every single system of the body from utero. And every person is male or female, even those with rare chromosomal or developmental abnormalities.

31:14There is no reboot. There is no undo. No human can change sex. And this is why a women's category exists. Determining sex is not difficult, and as the International Olympic Committee has recently announced, it is necessary.

31:31For the last 25 years, the IOC has not been genetically screening for eligibility in the female category. But after two decades of scandals and consultations with worldwide experts, the IOC has again clarified that male advantage and male development eliminates integrity in female competition.

31:51Screening is back in force During the past 25 years We have witnessed the entire Olympic podium for women's track In the 800 meters in the Rio Olympics filled by men Gold, silver, and bronze World athletics reported 135 male athletes Competing at the highest level of the women's Category in track and field With 50 or 60 of those medaling At the most elite level We had men winning Olympic gold medals in women boxing at the Paris Olympics We have had young girls and college athletes pushed aside for boys thousands of times losing opportunities and titles across the country The problem we have today in the United States is intentional non and a deliberate desire of leaders to undermine the women's category, despite more than 50 years of federal law intended to protect women.

32:44Compliance and screening need to be done across the board. The models for this are the same as they are for all categories, age, doping, para, weight, and sex. I could provide lists for hours of men and women's sports with open and egregious defiance of law and policy in the U.S., but I will highlight four for now.

33:07The CEO of USA Rugby proclaimed he will not meaningfully protect the women's category, saying it would have been worth it to sacrifice both the men's and the women's Olympic team in order to allow men to compete with women.

33:21There are an unknown number of men still competing on women's teams. One women's team in Baltimore alone has four known men. This same attitude is in leadership at USA Volleyball, Hockey, the U.S. Tennis Association, and the WNBA.

33:36USA Ultimate recently hand-selected two men for women's positions on U.S. national teams for the 2026 World Championships. Three weeks ago, in open violation of U.S. and international policy, USA Cycling granted male athlete James Amanda Olson-Tate an international license to compete in the most prestigious cycling competition for women on U.S. soil in a decade, despite being told he was male.

34:01And finally, the NCAA is still in court fighting female athletes and spending millions of dollars to argue that they had every right to allow a six-foot-four male to take a women's national title. The NCAA's new policy does not define sex or provide any means of reasonable enforcement or screening.

34:19In summary, this issue is not complicated. It is actually very simple. But it is contentious because the concept of gender identity is in direct conflict with the objective reality of sex, and you have to choose one.

34:33The more we pretend to ignore that, the more women are hurt. You can protect the boy who wants to take a spot on a girl's team, or you can protect the girl for whom the spot was designated.

34:44You can protect women's sports to celebrate female athletes and recognize women as champions, or you can use women's sports as a place to compare women to less talented males and to teach women that men must be prioritized We can do both We must make a choice Thank you Thank you very much Now Ms Smolak Good morning, Chairman and members of the committee.

35:08My name is Carly Smolak. I was a four-year starting goalkeeper for the Stanford University women's soccer team and a professional athlete in the Women's United Soccer Association, which was the first truly professional women's soccer league in the world.

35:23I started playing girls club soccer in third grade. I cannot imagine how the trajectory of my life would have changed if I had to compete against boys growing up. Would I have earned the starting roles on the club or Olympic development teams that led to being recruited by Stanford?

35:39Would I have bothered staying late after every practice if I knew a boy would beat me out anyway? The answer is no. Today we are failing young female athletes by forcing girls to choose between playing co-ed sports or not playing at all.

35:50We are showing them that even if they are the fastest female athlete on the track, a boy might be awarded first place. The message to young girls is that boys can be better female athletes than girls.

36:00Even worse is how we treat girls that do not consent to competing against males. We are training and shaming them into suppressing their correct instincts and feelings to cater to the desires of boys.

36:11This is nothing short of mass grooming. Girls today have to watch as some of the most iconic female athletes of all time equivocate on this issue, presumably to protect their personal investments in pro leagues with both known and suspected male athletes on payroll or their carefully crafted reputations built on acceptable politics within the women's sports world.

36:32One can only speculate as to why these high-profile former female athletes refused to protect the opportunities they enjoyed for the next generation. What's really sad is that this dream of thriving, highly visible women's professional sports is in jeopardy.

36:50The public controversy is already here, and it can only get worse when the fans of these pro leagues, such as the NWSL or the WNBA, come to find out just how many millions of dollars in salaries, sponsorships, and awards have been and continue to be given to male athletes and women's sports.

37:09This is all couched in the platitudes of compassion and inclusivity in an attempt to bend reality with the cudgel of sympathy. Of course, we can have compassion for various types of men and boys who conceptualize themselves in various ways.

37:22That does not mean we open up the eligibility of women sports to men who cannot or do not feel like competing with other men Women sports are not a catch for various categories of male athletes such as men with developmental differences men with various plastic surgeries or men who claim they don feel like men.

37:39Women's sports are for females only. In addition to being a professional athlete, I was also a passionate adult amateur athlete. I found Australian rules football a little later in life. I won four national championships as a player and a coach and represented the United States at the International Cup in Australia in 2017.

37:56Unfortunately, if I discovered Australian rules football today, I would not have joined in the first place because today there are male athletes competing on women's teams in our extremely physical full contact sport. While I retired before men joined the league, every year since I have watched more and more men join other women's teams.

38:18Until finally in 2023, a man joined my beloved former team. I got sick to my stomach when I saw him in a team photo, and I immediately looked up his name. I saw that he was a former Marine.

38:31I saw that he was an ex-con and considered himself a prison abolitionist. My red flags immediately went up. Why did this large former Marine go to prison? Was he there for sexual violence? Were the players safe?

38:46What I would later learn is the stuff of nightmares. I found out that he is a registered sex offender that served 15 years in a military prison of an original 41-year sentence for repeatedly doing things to multiple children under the age of 11, which are inappropriate to repeat here today.

39:04When the president of the club was notified of his sex offender status, he asked him to leave the team. However, none of the players on the women's team were formally informed that they had been sharing hotel rooms and late celebratory nights with a convicted sexual predator.

39:19The president and the board of the national governing body were alerted that a convicted male sexual predator was on a women's team, that he participated in nationally sanctioned tournaments where other women's teams and their children were present, and that the team did not officially notify any of the players of his sex offender status.

39:36Their response was that the league could not control the personnel decisions of the individual clubs. Of course, the obvious solution is to enforce a clearly stated policy that women's competition is exclusively for female athletes.

39:50This debate about whether some males are entitled to women's sports needs to be addressed at all levels of competition. Youth, high school, amateur. master's and professional sports alike. It is not just women at the highest level of competition that deserves safe and fair access to athletics, it's all of us.

40:09Girls should not have to reach an elite status or age into being treated fairly. None of us should be asked to sacrifice our meaningful pursuits of personal excellence, self-improvement, fair competition, safety, or team camaraderie on behalf of men that cannot or do not feel like competing against other men.

40:27Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Malik. Now, Mr. Bach. Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member Durbin, today, as you're hearing, champions for women's rights in sport are locked in a great struggle, the outcome of which will determine whether our daughters and granddaughters and generations of girls yet unborn will have the opportunities in sport that their mothers and grandmothers once had.

40:56Fifty-five years after the passage of Title IX, there are more men competing in women's sports than ever before. Women's rights have been pushed to the back of the bus by too many sports administrators and organizations.

41:13The struggle for women's rights in sport can be won, but winning will require clear focus and pursuit of three foundational principles. First, sexual biology determines outcomes in sport. Males have insurmountable biological advantages, making essential, clearly defined sex-based categories for sport eligibility.

41:39Second, the two indispensable sex categories in sport, male and female, must be guarded vigorously through mandatory, non-intrusive, inexpensive sex verification screening. In most cases, a simple saliva test. Third, sports organizations must be legally accountable for protecting women's rights to fair and safe competition and to women's teams, locker rooms, and showers without male intruders.

42:18Let move to a 30 view of professional Olympic and scholastic sports three areas where these principles are desperately needed Women professional sports leagues engage in interstate commerce and often receive significant taxpayer support for example through using publicly funded stadiums.

42:38Yet most women's professional leagues, including the LPGA, major league volleyball national women's soccer league and wnba do not maintain strict biological standards for eligibility in women's sports and do not require sex verification testing the only major women's professional league which does both is the women's tennis association olympic and amateur sports are governed by the united states olympic and paralympic committee a federally chartered corporation.

43:14On July 21, 2025, the USOPC amended its athlete safety policy to state that it would collaborate with stakeholders to ensure fair and safe women's competition consistent with Executive Order 14-201 entitled Keeping Men Out of Women's Sports.

43:39Unfortunately, the USOPC's policy in place for over 14 months has not been fully effective. It does not include prescriptive terms, timelines for compliance, or sanctions for noncompliance. The result has been non- or partial compliance by many U.S. national governing bodies.

44:01For example, the U.S. Soccer Federation currently permits males to compete in women's amateur competition. The relevant rule states, a player may register with the gender team with which the player identifies, and confirmation sufficient for guaranteeing access shall be satisfied by documentation or evidence that shows the stated gender is sincerely held and part of a person's core identity.

44:31Many other NGBs, including USA Biathlon, USA Cycling, USA Gymnastics, USA Racquetball, US Rowing, USA Rugby, USA Swimming, the US Tennis Association, USA Triathlon, and USA Volleyball, among them have insufficient policies containing loopholes that allow men to compete in women sports Most US NGBs do not require sex verification testing And the most significant national governing body in scholastic sports is the NCAA.

45:13Current NCAA rules fail to satisfy each of the three basic principles that I just stated for protecting women's rights in sports. The principle that women, no less than men, are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the right to pursue happiness, is as necessary for human flourishing and the protection of equal dignity on America's playing fields as it is in America's corporate boardrooms, courtrooms, and halls of Congress.

45:50Yet today, in professional Olympic movement and scholastic sports, there are more men competing in women's sports than ever before. The time to act is now. Thank you all for your testimony. We'll have five-minute rounds of questioning, and I'll start.

46:08and the first question may seem awful simple, but it takes off from a question that Senator Blackburn, a member of this committee, asked now a justice of the Supreme Court, whether she could answer the question, what is a woman?

46:29She said she couldn't because she wasn't a biologist. So I want to ask you the same question, all of you. What's a woman? Adult human female. An adult human female. An adult human female and a woman is determined by her biology alone.

46:54Okay, thank you very much. Women throughout history have been asked to relinquish opportunities to men. They've been required to ask their permission. They are regularly asked to accept and accommodate male behavior that is unfair to them.

47:15In this case, men playing in women's sports cost women trophies, scholarships, endorsements, medals championships professional careers It even risks their physical safety I wondering why it is up to a woman athlete to accommodate biological males who for whatever reason want to play sports against these women.

47:42Women athletes greatly outnumber the biological men who want to play against them, and the cost to women athletes is great. For you two ladies that are on the panel, what is the cost to women athletes of biological men playing in women's sports?

48:03Do you mean like the emotional cost as well as the obvious cost of loss of opportunities and chances to play? Emotional cost as well? it's just a complete stripping of dignity and of respect.

48:20It is asking women to deny the reality of sex. It is asking them to deny that there is a difference between being male and being female. It is, I mean, it's gaslighting in the extreme.

48:34I would also say that, like to address Senator Durbin's comment when he was speaking earlier, saying that there's commenting on a suicide risk. That is emotional blackmail. It should never be used against women.

48:53It is the age-old story that women and men, if you leave, if you don't do what I say as a man, I will hurt myself or hurt others. So telling women that they have to relinquish their rights, their safety, their fair treatment in order to accommodate the desires of a man or the comfort of a man is, I mean, it is abuse of women.

49:22Carly. I think for me, the thing that galls me the most is that there's, if you allow males into women's competition, what that tells me is that you don't actually really care who the best female athlete is, that were sort of out there for a quaint enterprise, for participation, because it makes us better mothers or better people.

49:43And the reality is we all train day in and day out, year after year, sometimes for decades, to win. And when you put biological males in our sports, that's cheating and it is stripping us of everything that we have worked for, which is to achieve success through fair competition.

50:03Thank you. I recently have been watching Sophie Cunningham, and she's received backlash from coaches and others in the league for speaking out, as she has. I've heard reports of female athletes who are strongly urged or even prohibited by contract from speaking out on the issue of whether biological men should be allowed to play in women's sports.

50:36Additionally, it seems that no one is asking women athletes what they think about this issue. So this question is for any of the witnesses. Can you tell me more about this and what might be a solution here?

50:59Okay, well, there are statistics and data on how women feel about this. Prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympics, the IOC was doing genetic screening, and at the time before they ceased doing the genetic screening, 82% of the female athletes wanted the genetic screening to continue but it was discontinued in spite of that when Thank you.

52:13Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is a man on chemo allowed to compete against women because he sufficiently weak or like if he's 70 or 80 do we now equivalent equivocate that to women that is not an elite female athlete or even a competitive female athlete that is a man and I guess I would add And well, I'll get to that.

57:52Mr. Bakke, you looked like you were about to speak also. While we're talking to you, Ms. Jones, tell us a little bit about something that also can't be dealt with simply by giving someone estrogen or blocking testosterone.

58:08And that is both the fairness issues and the safety issues related to being forced to compete against biological males, and things that your daughter experienced, things like being required to share a locker room, changing facilities with biological males.

58:28How did that affect your daughter and other similarly situated athletes being required to share a locker room while competing against Leah Thomas? So the threat of it is terrifying. and having had actually two of my children experience this from either side the threat of a man being in the locker room is terrorizing for women and I can I've spoken to a lot of athletes who did indeed we work with them regularly have indeed shared locker rooms and tight quarters and being undressed in front of a male who's obfuscating or hiding their sex in order to gain access to women's spaces.

59:11And it is, I mean, there's no other way to explain it other than it's just scarring. It is the equivalent of sexual abuse and sexual harassment. It is voyeurism. It is feeling completely stripped of all the protections, privacy, rights, and dignity, and even truth because this space has been set aside for women.

59:33and now someone is saying only when that's convenient for us. And so, but the emotional harm of that, it is terrorizing to the point where NCAA athletes at the 2022 championships found janitors' closets to change into that didn't have showers or toilets, you know, hid away.

59:58We're celebrating the fact that they could find unlocked closets in order to not have the threat of having a man in their space. And, I mean, it's, you can, it's happened so many times.

60:10It's very difficult for women to get through. They end up crying. It's upsetting. It's misogyny. It's misogyny. It's horrible. And then, from a man's side, this has also happened to my son, having a woman allowed to enter his locker rooms.

60:26and what I find really disturbing, the impact on men, it's emasculating because men in college are being told you can't have this. This isn't just for men. You've also got to let women in here and that tells these young men.

60:41I mean, it's a very different emotional feeling because a woman in the men's locker room is like a gnat, annoying, but because the men are being told they can't speak up for themselves, how in the world are they going to speak up for their sisters, their wives, their daughters?

60:59And that is a tool of silencing men from being able to stand up and do the right thing. Whereas women in a locker room with a man are frightened. They are not going to be able to take on this man in this space, pound for pound, inch for inch.

61:12Men are like hugely stronger. I don't know if you know this, but it's a great stat you can pull out is that a male punch is over 162% stronger than that of a woman's, there's just no fighting this.

61:30Instinctively, women are not going to take that on. So when men are also silenced from doing the right thing, it's incredibly damaging. That's why these norms that we have developed over hundreds, over thousands of years, they're not rooted in superstition.

61:50They're rooted in biological realities. And we neglect them. We abandon them at our own peril. Okay, we'll turn next to Senator Kennedy. Ms. Jones, a transgender female athlete is a biological male. Is that correct Yes And yes So when a transgender female competes in an athletic event against a female it a man competing against a woman Is that right?

62:44That is correct. That's the clear language. And do you know of any biologist or professor or doctor who would disagree that biological males, as a law of biology, have physical advantages over a biological female?

63:13I don't know of any that could speak that and are still holding on to truth. So the science is well established, is that correct? The science is crystal clear. I'm a little disappointed that my Democratic colleagues left.

63:43It's their right, but I'm disappointed. Many of my colleagues would have us believe that this, what's the word I'm searching for? this campaign to have females or males compete against females in women's sports is not a problem in America.

64:14But that's not true, is it? No. There are still many, many, many adults in leadership positions who are insistent that males should be able to compete against females. Is that correct, Ms. Smollett? That is correct.

64:41Why? I mean why is it politically important to them? That can't be, why would they deny biology? I think that especially depending on what sort of organization or league you talking about a lot of times people that are putting themselves up for leadership positions are oftentimes kind of of the activist nature So in the case of my Australian rules football in this country...

65:18Being an activist doesn't necessarily equate to stupidity, does it? You would have to ask them, but there is this idea that, you know, it's being construed as a new civil rights movement, which I find insulting to the civil rights movement, frankly, and I don't know how they're doing that and getting away with it.

65:39Well, in America, you can believe what you want, but I don't understand why many of my colleagues pretend that this is no longer a problem and pretend that biology doesn't exist as a political position.

66:02Mr. Bartlett, let me ask you, and I'll ask all three of you, you're not here today trying to denigrate someone who has gender dysphoria, are you? Absolutely not, Senator. Absolutely not. No. As I appreciate it, you're just saying because of biology, because of innate physical differences, men have to compete with men and women have to compete with women.

66:47Is that right? That's right, Senator. And the premise and the reason for the women's category is so that women can have equal opportunities to men. And so to create a category that includes women and then chip away and take away from that category by including men in it is illogical.

67:14why the folks out there and there seem to be many that still persist who advocate requiring males to compete with females in women sports Why do they not advocate males or females competing in male sports Ms. Jones?

67:42Well, that experiment has been done. As I say, there's no women in the NFL or Major League Baseball or the NHL, not because women aren't trying hard enough. It's because of biological reality. And if I tell you the shortest man in the NBA is five foot three and the tallest woman in the WNBA has been over seven feet, there's a reason why there have been no women able to compete in the NBA.

68:04To your other question about why do people do this or why are we suggesting this, again, it's my guess, but I think if you tell me I have to look at a man and believe he's a woman, and I have to speak that, I can believe anything.

68:28It's a post-truth world. Everyone knows. So when I can make up my own truth, when I can make up my own rules, I can dictate whatever I want to, and it doesn't have to be grounded in facts, logic, or reason.

68:43Thank you for being here today. Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I am so pleased that you all are with us and pleased that we have this hearing today. Ms. Mullick, I want to come to you.

68:59Your testimony, I appreciated that you talked about what's happening in Oregon, where you were raised and you referenced it as the race to the bottom. I would like to tell you my home state, the great state of Tennessee, Governor Bill Lee signed the Riley Gaines Women's Safety and Protection Act this last year.

69:25And in that, we define what is a woman and what is a man. And make certain that people are playing in the sports as designated. I'd like for you to talk for a moment about how important the role of the state is in protecting women in those states.

69:49And then, Ms. Jones, if you would follow her with comments on that same topic. Ms. Malek, you're recognized. Ms. Thank you. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have grown up in Oregon in the 80s and 90s because there was so much support for girls' sports.

70:10I played basketball. I played soccer. We had just as many fans as the boys' teams did. We were on the front page of the newspaper just as much. and that sense of what we were doing competing as girls, the sense that that was so important to everybody was I think really hugely impactful for me and how I saw myself as an athlete.

70:34I really cannot imagine how things would be different for me if I grew up playing sports in Oregon 10 or 20 years later. So while that was... It would have affected your self-worth, I would imagine.

70:47It would have absolutely affected my self-worth because, you know, when you're young, you work hard, and the more you win and the more success you gain, the more confidence you get, and the more you want to try harder for other things.

70:58Would it have impacted your educational opportunities? It very well could have. I mean, would I have had the confidence to go out for the Olympic development program and play on the club travel teams that got me recruited to Stanford, that got me a scholarship to Stanford?

71:13I mean, it's impossible to say. It's open doors and opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. Ms. Jones? It's critical for girls to believe that their worth and the rights that they have, you know, they have to be treated equally.

71:30Their opportunities in sports shouldn't be dictated by their zip code in the state that they live in. So it's very important that states draw hard lines in the sand and say we do not discriminate against girls just because they're born female in our state.

71:47That's a very important line in the sand. We do have federal legislation that should be protecting women and girls, but as long as that is not doing its intended job, we need states to stand up and bring us back to reason.

72:04Well, that is true. Ms. Smollett, coming back to you, the detrimental effect of allowing men to play in women's sports physically and mentally, And you've talked about the fact that a biological man was allowed to join your former women's football team And he was a convicted child molester who had served jail time for his crimes He shared hotel rooms and spent extensive time alone with his female teammates some of whom were survivors of sexual violence themselves.

72:39And according to your testimony, none of your former teammates were informed why the individual was eventually asked to leave the football team. I am hopeful that people that are watching this hearing that they're going to realize this was a child molesting biological man who was allowed to participate in a women's sports club because in some places in this country, the leftist would sacrifice almost anything, anything, on the altar of woke gender ideology, even women's safety.

73:23I think this is absolutely abhorrent and disgusting. I've got a bill, the Fair Play for Girls Act, that would treat this like the women's rights issue it is and require the DOJ to report to Congress on violence against girls and women in athletics.

73:43and interesting not one single Democrat not one had has joined this legislation you got any idea of why they wouldn't join this are you asking me I am I think it's the same reason why a lot of people don't speak up on this because they're afraid of getting bullied, being called names, being called a bigot.

74:17And so I think people are just sort of avoiding it and waiting for somebody else to take the lead on this, including young girls. Like, we're asking young girls to forfeit games in their careers because the adults in the room and the leaders in the room won't stand up and say the very simple, obvious thing, which is girls' sports are for girls, women's sports are for women.

74:37Well, I have a bill I'm going to take to the floor again this week. It's the American Girls in Sports Day, October 10th. I think we should set it aside. Roman numerals XX, female chromosomes.

74:52Let celebrate our American Girls in Sports Every one of the three million girls let cheer them on on October 10th and I wear a T that says XX So they deserve the opportunity They deserve the victory.

75:09They deserve the scholarships, and they deserve to know that they're going to be safe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Now we have this order, Graham, Moody, Hawley, and Britt. So Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

75:25For more than 50 years, Title IX has helped open doors for American girls. Today, more than 3.6 million young women participate in high school athletics, and more than a quarter million women compete in college sports.

75:38Those numbers represent more than participation. They represent life-changing opportunities. This issue really hits home for me. For years, I've watched my daughter play volleyball, And I've seen her and her teammates travel, have early morning practices, late night practices, early morning competitions, and get back up the next day and do it all over again.

76:03I've also seen the benefits of what athletic competition gives young women. Confidence, discipline, teamwork, resilience, and lifelong friendships. In South Carolina, we don't overcomplicate this issue. Boys are boys and girls are girls. The separation of the sexes on the playing field or court is essential to preserving fairness and safety.

76:27And I'm also disappointed our Democratic colleagues left the room because I think the risk of physical harm is real and has already happened. For that reason, in 2022, South Carolina passed the Save Women's Sports Act, which requires school athletic teams to be separated based on biological sex as determined by an athlete's birth certificate.

76:51Also, I'm heartened by the incredible work that the president and his administration have done to address this issue. Shortly after taking office, President Trump signed an executive order directing all federal agencies to strengthen Title IX protections.

77:06As I've said, I approach this issue from a mother's perspective. We ask so much of our daughters when they decide to commit themselves to sports. We ask them to work hard, to persevere, and compete with everything they have.

77:20Over the many years that I watched my daughter play volleyball policies and legal theories weren important What was important was whether she had a fair shot at winning and most importantly whether she was safe In the end, it will be our daughters who will benefit from those willing to stand up for common sense.

77:42So, Ms. Johns, I wanna ask you, in your view, what factors must athletic governing bodies consider when establishing eligibility rules for women's competitions? Sex. They just need to determine sex. I would say that birth certificates are not sufficient.

78:05So right now birth certificates can be changed, I believe in 44 states across the country, relatively easily in some states, like within a day. And we are tracking lots of young boys who've had their birth certificates altered and are hiding the truth of their sex in order to compete in female sport.

78:28The IOC has established the SRY gene screen, which is very cheap and easy to do, and is about to get a lot more rapid. It will be a rapid test and even cheaper. So we would like to encourage states and those writing legislation to please consider that in the future as the gold standard.

78:46Thank you. Ms. Smolak, as both an athlete and coach, what responsibilities do you believe sports organizations have toward female athletes? I think first and foremost, safety. I mean, I thought that went without saying until recently.

79:06But if you can't ensure the safety of your athletes, then there's no trust there from the athletes. I also think leaders need to lead, and cowering around this issue, hoping somebody else solves it, is so frustrating to watch because I don't think that they don't see what I see.

79:29I think that they're afraid. Thank you. Mr. Bach, in February 2025, the NCAA announced a new rule limiting competition in women's sports to student athletes who are, quote, assigned female at birth only. Is the current NCAA determination of biological sex sufficient?

79:48If not, what recommendations would you give to strengthen that standard to protect female athletes? Thank you, Senator Graham. No one's assigned a sex at birth. They are their sex at birth. The NCAA's policy fails from the start by failing to define women on biological terms.

80:13The NCAA policy also fails because it includes no enforcement mechanism. They're engaging in no oversight, and there have been probably close to a half dozen at least that we know of males that have competed over the last year or so in collegiate sports.

80:34And as far as we know, no sanctions, no repercussions other than those, in some cases, the universities have pulled the male when it's been found out off the team. But the NCAA is doing no testing.

80:53So while Senator Durbin asked a question of Charlie Baker about a year ago, how many do you know of? How many women do you know of that are competing in NCAA sports? And Charlie Baker said he thought 10.

81:13He doesn't know because they do no testing. He has no knowledge. So there needs to be. So that's just a made-up number? It may be a number that he's aware of, but it's not a true number because it's not based on facts and testing.

81:31So what needs to happen is we need to have a policy that is based on biological reality and is enforceable through sex verification testing. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Now we have Senator Moody.

81:52Mr. Chairman, I know it is not common that you are moving on your side of the aisle from one committee member to another committee member to another committee member. And I just want to make sure for those that aren't familiar with Senate process or committee process, the reason why it is going now from one Republican senator to another Republican senator is because there is not one Democratic senator here to ask those that are actually involved as females in female sports about the dangers and missed opportunities and challenges for what been happening across our nation for our young women and girls and I thought it was very powerful just a moment ago when Senator Blackburn was here and was questioning and the three other members of the Senate Judiciary Committee that are female are sitting here.

82:41We're engaged. We're asking the hard questions. We put in a lot of time to prepare for this. We talked to our constituents. We talked to our universities. We talked to our schools we talked to our fellow I Was a travel baseball mom for really we talked to our fellow mothers to how this is affecting sports in general and to my knowledge shockingly not one female Democratic senator has engaged in this hearing or asked you any questions about your experiences your concerns your your fears based on your backgrounds, what you predict may happen in the future if we don't, as you said, lead.

83:27And I think today's hearing shows why this is so necessary, Mr. Chairman, and I'm so proud of this committee and you for setting aside time right now. I was also shocked that we had to listen to a really long diatribe about all of the other things that we should be doing right now instead of coming together and talking about what's facing young women and the challenges and opportunities that they have, I just need to put on the record because I am incensed when I hear rhetoric like that.

83:58I assume that was because he's trying to justify by why not one woman on the other side of the aisle showed up to ask these questions and engage. I guess that's what that was a justification, but I have to put on the record that in everything that we have done to pass and achieve on affordability for the American people.

84:19We have done it without votes from the Democrats in this Congress. We passed no tax on tips, never been done. No tax on overtime, never been done. No tax on Social Security, never been done.

84:31We set up historic child investment accounts for every baby born. We just set up tax credits for moms and parents, child tax credits. Every single one of them voted no. So we are delivering for the American people.

84:44We are getting things done. They're voting no But we also having hearings about some of the biggest challenges facing our young people and the next generation And so I proud to be here to ask you some questions And I even prouder of you for being willing to answer them today And for all of those that took time out of their busy lives And I sure and what was hard to be here I know we've had some others that wanted to be here and got delayed because of travel concerns So thank you for being here at sometimes.

85:10I can't even believe that we're here and Talking about a threat to opportunities for girls and women here in 2026, because for so many of these opportunities, they were hard fought for and we've done everything we could to protect them over the years.

85:25But if we have to do it to protect it going forward for girls and women behind you, let's do it. Let's get it done. And that's why this is so important. I'd like to ask each of you just quickly, tell me your biggest concern of allowing biological males to compete against girls in athletics.

85:52We'll start with you, Ms. Jones, and we'll go to the right. Policies that allow men to push aside women and girls in girls' sports is the public arena of the difference of the sexes and a nationwide shame on telling women across our country that we do not deserve to be treated fairly.

86:15And it is a degradation associated with being born female. That is my biggest concern. It's harmful to the psyche of every woman who sees it and to the men who want to support and stand by their women.

86:31I think what's at risk here is the opportunities for girls and women to have some of the most meaningful experiences in their lives through athletics, through fair competition, through self-improvement, the pursuit of excellence, the camaraderie on our teams that are, for many of us, become our lifelong best friends that are with us through the highs and lows that come through with adult lives.

87:01life. My whole life has been built around my participation in girls and women's sports, and I would hate to see that taken away from the next generations. It also presents safety issues, concerns for the safety of female athletes.

87:14Of course, there are the safety issues as well. I mean especially I do personally enjoy high contact sports and it is absolutely inappropriate to have biological males tackling women In fact in our sport Australian Rules Football they didn even allow women to tackle until in the beginning of the league So we had to fight to even have full contact Australian football.

87:38So there's a lot at stake here for us. And I'm running short on time. I just want to say, as Attorney General in Florida, I led on some efforts to protect girls and women, especially within the university settings.

87:53And I'm so proud to now be a United States senator that gets to continue to fight on these issues. Because states like Florida, we have led and we have put in place laws to protect women's sports.

88:07In the Senate, we had the opportunity to pass the Protection of Women and Girls Sports Act of 2021 by unanimous consent. And at the time, the Democrats objected, blocking the bill, throwing out accusations that it was harmful.

88:20I'm gonna quote this that it was harmful and hateful And just last year the house Democrats pulled the exact same stunt They tried to block legislation to protect women's sports from biological men and then when they did block it Jeffries rolls out and starts calling all of the Republicans That supported that that they were supporting the house Republican child predator empowerment act I guess trying to slam those of us.

88:45They're trying to protect opportunities for girls and even this Congress we tried to pass common sense legislation in the Senate just last year this Congress but not a single Democrat voted for the protection of women and girls and Sports Act of 2025.

89:03Not a single one. So we can talk about all the issues that we have to focus on as Congress on behalf of the American people and we are let me just tell you every day.

89:14But when given the opportunity time and time again, they call us names, they try to slander those trying to step up and fight. I know you've experienced that. And not one Democrat voted to protect women's sports.

89:28Thank you for being here. Thank you for helping us shine a light on this very important issue. Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to the witnesses for being here. Thank you for your bold stand protecting women's sports.

89:39Thank you for your bold stand for basic equality at our educational institutions. Ms. Jones, I want to start with you. Three years ago, Riley Gaines sat right where you're sitting at a hearing in front of this committee, and she described for the committee what it was like to be forced to have a biological man in her locker room without her consent.

90:00Forced to undress in front of him, forced to watch him undress in front of her, forced to then go compete with her, against her in a totally unfair situation. Your daughter swam at Yale, as I understand it, and she raced Leah Thomas, who, to be clear, is a biological male, in the 2021-2022 season.

90:18Is that right? Do I have that right? Correct. Well, first of all, congratulations to your daughter. I think it was the Ivy League championship in which she raced against him. Is that right? Multiple competitions that year.

90:31Yeah, very good. Now, to the best of your knowledge, let me just ask you, to the best of your knowledge, was your daughter or any of the women on her team ever asked whether they consented to have a man in their locker room?

90:45Were they asked? No. Were they given an option where they told, you know, if this really makes you uncomfortable, we'll accommodate you, or maybe we'll make the man actually go into the man's locker room?

90:58Women across the Ivy League were all pulled into mandatory team meetings, were on a regular basis and told that they needed to get help and this was the decision of their school and their league.

91:10They needed to get their words. If they were asked to speak on this, they should be silent. And if they wanted to speak on it, they had to get their words cleared by their coaches and athletic directors.

91:23They were told to control their families. the threats were gigantic the pressure was enormous and it came down on a regular regular basis you know I just find that so incredible I almost said unbelievable but sadly it's totally believable based on what we know based on your daughter's experience Riley's experience but you talk about an incredible abuse of power you've described those meetings in the past as involving intimidation threats, coercion, emotional blackmail who ran those meetings?

91:54Can you tell us something? I think the world should know me to the best of your knowledge who was involved in those meetings? The directives I don't Know to be perfectly clear the directives came down from the Ivy League so I hold Robin Harris responsible and Then it came down through the athletic directors and the coaches and other support staff, but everyone was required to fall in line and and Harvard made the mistake of putting theirs in print but they the only ones that put it in print So otherwise it just word of mouth And all of these schools that you just named every single one of them gets millions millions of dollars in federal funds every year for whole varieties of different projects.

92:42I mean, think about this. They are using federal money. They're taking federal money and at the same time telling their female athletes, the women on these teams, that they are going to coerce them, that they are going to threaten them, that they are going to cut short their careers or their academic careers if they don't.

93:00Consent is even the wrong word. If they don't just accept the fact that men are going to be in their locker rooms, men are going to be competing on their teams, and men are going to be taking away their titles.

93:09Their records, their relay spots, their opportunities to travel, their chances at a podium. Yes, all of those things. And to watch yourself as an elite female athlete who's raced against the best in the world, lose to a man who is parading around on television telling the whole world that he's so much slower and weaker than he ever was before is such an insult.

93:30It's very hard to take. But I also want to say that, and we're focusing on, your questions have focused on what my experience was with our family in the Ivy League. This continues on today.

93:43It happened in the Mountain West Conference with the volleyball girls, all their schools, nobody wanted to take a stance. The girls had to do it themselves, were speaking up on their own terms. The girls at University of Nevada had to basically fight against their administration in order to take a stand publicly.

94:09So, and these meetings and in coercion and intimidation tactics continue. I want to ask you, Mr. Bach, about that if I could. The NCAA's current policy, to the best of your knowledge, does its current policy say anything about which locker rooms biological men who are practicing with women's teams, which locker rooms they have to use?

94:29Absolutely not. Because of their failure to correctly define a man and a woman, it does open the locker rooms of women's teams to men. Okay, I want to be clear about this. today right now is as we're we're here talking you're telling me that right now biological men can be and are permitted into women's locker rooms and these collegiate sports teams is that correct the the men can participate with the team and there no restriction on them coming in the women locker room under NCAA current policy Am I also right in thinking that the NCAA right now in court you represent I think, Riley Gaines and a number of other student athletes in court suing the NCAA under Title IX.

95:11Is that correct? That's correct, Senator. And my understanding is that the NCAA's position in court, even as we speak, is that Title IX doesn't apply to them. Is that correct? That's right. They don't think that federal law applies to the NCAA that controls athletics for 1,100 schools, most of which receive federal funding, as you've already said.

95:32You know, I just, I find this just absolutely, it's really, it's insulting to use your word, Ms. Jones. The idea that the NCAA wouldn't be covered by Title IX. They don't have to actually protect women's sports.

95:39Anything they do for women is just out of their good graces, and we should all be thankful for what they do. And even as we are here today, they're still putting biological men into women's locker rooms.

95:56I mean, it's unbelievable. Why these people get a dime of federal funding is beyond me. They shouldn't. I hope that your lawsuit succeeds. I just want to make one other point, Mr. Chairman, very briefly.

96:06I think we've got maybe behind me a piece of a quotation of my exchange with Charlie Baker. I just can't help but point this out. You know, Charlie Baker was asked by me under oath in 2024 about their rules that at the time, wide open door for men and women's sports.

96:22He said, our guidelines give people optionality with how to choose their facilities. And then he went on to say, you know, we're telling the local folks that they need to create accommodations for people who are playing.

96:34Let's just be clear about this. The NCAA was putting biological men into women's locker rooms and they're still doing it today. and they are still today saying Title IX shouldn't apply to them. Is that right, Mr. Bach?

96:45That's right. The optionality that the girls got was to go into the broom closet and change there to find some place before they even got to the venue. Leave the venue in their wet, sopping wet swimsuit underneath their sweats because they didn't feel comfortable changing.

97:05That's the optionality that's given by the NCAA. You know, I just want to say that Charlie Baker ought to be ashamed of what he has done at the NCAA. He ought to be ashamed of how he deliberately misled this committee.

97:14And he ought to be ashamed of their current litigating position. If they had any decency, they would go right now and settle with your clients and give them all the relief that they need They would admit that what they did was wrong And they would also fully say that we will comply with title nine and we will respect women and show them full equality in women sports I want to thank each of you for your bold stand thank you mr. chairman senator brett thank you mr. chairman thank you for holding this hearing and I appreciate the witnesses for being here today I it can't go unspoken that not one member on the other side of the aisle has had the respect for women to come in here and ask questions, to figure out how we get this right, how we stand up for fairness, for safety, for an opportunity for young women across the country.

98:14It's absolutely absurd. Absolutely absurd. As a mom of a volleyball player, who is really quite good, if I do say so myself. The opportunity that's created for young women to learn, to lead, to grow, to institute discipline each and every day of their life, to build a team and to compete as part of one, it can't be understated.

98:46We continue to allow that to be taken away from young women, from junior high, high school, college, professional sports. It must end. My question for you all is this. First off, actually, let me start with you, Mr. Bach.

99:04I want to piggyback on what Senator Hawley, who has been such a champion for making sure that we protect women's sports, was talking about with regards to the NCAA. I think the NCAA is feckless.

99:17I think that it is alarming, disturbing, and it is beyond reproach that they will not stand up for women. Can you tell us the issues at hand with regards to how the rules are written with the NCAA or what's not written that needs to be written down?

99:38They need to define women based on biology. And time out on that. Yes. That is an immutable characteristic. This is not a state of mind, much like your age is not, as much as we would like for it to be some days.

99:55We don't let 16 and 17 year olds, I have two high schoolers, we don't let them them decide that they're 21. We don't let them go vote. You know, 14, but I feel 18, so I should be able to do that.

100:09Do we do that? No. No. Why in the world are we allowing these untruths to occur? So go ahead. But my thought on that is it's not a state of mind. This is about biology, and that's the way that we should move forward.

100:32100%. And part of the reason, probably, for why they're unwilling to put that in the rules is from 2011 until 2025, after President Trump's executive order, the NCAA was the leader in putting men in women's locker rooms, the leader in putting men on the playing field against women, and hiding it from the American public.

101:00But they had a policy where they allowed men to compete in women's sports. And they didn't follow on that issue. They led on that issue. So how do we make sure that we hold that?

101:12Because clearly the political winds have changed. This is an 80-20 issue. America is saying, we want to protect women's sports, despite the fact that my Democratic colleagues can't bring themselves to do that. But what happens if somebody else is in the White House and we don't have President Trump's strong leadership.

101:28What happens then and what do we need to be doing right this second to make sure that we protect women's sports moving forward? Well, the NCAA needs to have a policy based on biology, number one.

101:39And number two, they need to institute sex verification testing of women's sports so that we know that women's sports are for women. But secondly I think Title IX is a good basis but I think that this Congress needs to go further And there needs to be Commerce Clause equal rights legislation that applies not just to those recipients that receive federal funding but applies as we do with racial discrimination, as we do with age and disability discrimination, that applies and protects women under the Commerce Clause nationwide at every level.

102:21Professional, anybody engaged in interstate commerce, which would include, obviously, collegiate sports and would also include professional sports, ought to be covered by the requirement to protect equal opportunities for women. It is a civil rights issue.

102:40Absolutely. Listen, I want to ask Ms. Jones and Ms. Mollick a question. You talked about the silencing of women, where women are not allowed to speak up. If you do not affirm what this man believes, then somehow you will be stripped of your opportunity to move forward, your opportunity to compete.

103:06Tell me a little bit more about that because I think it's insulting. I think it's degrading. I think it is Gaslighting Honestly in the extreme so mrs. Jones, can you talk a little bit about about that and what we can do to prevent that in the future?

103:23Well, it's interesting I Yeah, I mean women's we need to live in a society where we can speak truth and we can discuss facts reason in our opinions without threat of you know social isolation ostracization punishment those are this is how people learn how to reason you put your thoughts out there and you get feedback the silencing of women on this i think is just an intense amount of intimidation There also a lot of fear from leadership to say go away and be quiet.

103:58We've settled this. It's our decision. And I think Carly can expand on this, but the idea you're like, there are so many women out there that call us in tears, even whole teams of women that call us in tears.

104:11And they say, I've talked to leadership. I've tried to, the media won't talk to us. I've tried to go above into higher leadership. Everyone's shutting us down at every turn. So I feel like my voice is getting lost in the wind.

104:23I'm like, Carly. And one more question, because I am almost out of time. And if you will speak to that, and then also if you can answer this, what the research says, and obviously what you've seen.

104:34But, you know, we hear obviously a lot about safety and fairness, which is absolutely on the forefront. But people say, well, okay, now this man is on testosterone suppressors, so they don't enjoy as much of an advantage.

104:53I believe that to be completely false. Can you also talk about the dangers of competing against women under those circumstances as well? Oh, it's 100% false, and all you have to do is look at the IOC research on that, everything that has been documented.

105:05You can look at Emma Hilton's research. You can look at the publications from many of the world's leading endocrinologists and scientists. There have been, I mean, all of the data to date shows that it does not mitigate male advantage of male development.

105:21But again, I want to emphasize that the concept of saying that a mitigated or weakened male is a woman is unacceptable. The female category is a sex-based category. Women's sports exist to give the female sex opportunities in sports.

105:40we do not put weakened men into other divisions We do not take a short man and say he can play against the children The categories exist with firm boundaries as Bill has explained perforating those boundaries excludes the people for whom that category was created.

106:01Thank you. I hope that Democrats will stop gaslighting the American people and actually stand with young women from coast to coast. This concludes our hearing. I want to thank you folks that came a long ways to testify on this very important issue.

106:21And I want to thank all the colleagues who participated. Now, you can expect questions, what we call questions for answering writing from these people, whether they were here or not here. And so for the members of the committee, you will have one week from today to submit your questions for the record.

106:47And I'll ask the people that are testifying today to answer and return the questions to the committee within two weeks after you receive them. I also ask that the record remain open for a week.

107:03The hearing is adjourned. Once again, thanks everybody. Thank you.