Senate hearing on AI and the workforce — transcript and witness summaries — July 29, 2026

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksThe Subcommittee on Employment and Workplace Safety will come to order. First, it is an honor and a privilege to lead this subcommittee for a few months. I plan to examine the challenges that American workers face and explore policy solutions to increase opportunity, promote fairness, and support families.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksI appreciate being able to work with you, Ranking Member Hickenlooper, and I intend to be very active in the time that we have left leading this subcommittee together. Before I go any further, I ask unanimous consent for Senator Blunt Rochester to wave onto the subcommittee for the purpose of today's hearing. Without objection.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksI want to welcome our witnesses this afternoon. We have a distinguished panel of artificial intelligence researchers and workforce development leaders to put the impact of AI on the workforce in perspective. According to Goldman Sachs, AI will drive $7 trillion of worldwide investment and economic activity over the next decade.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksThe $7 trillion question, though, is who benefits from that? But it's not a question for the future. Employers, workers, and governments are exploring that answer right now.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksBased on all the evidence, three things seem to be happening so far. First, hiring of entry-level workers is somewhat weaker. Second, AI is transforming tasks rather than replacing jobs. Third, the skills that employers need and how workers learn those skills is rapidly changing.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksA lot of workforce training happens on the job. Entry workers aren't just hired to do their jobs; they're hired to gain experience and grow into more advanced jobs. Every master craftsman was once an apprentice, every doctor started out as a resident, and most of our staffers in our offices started out as interns.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksThe real challenge is for graduates and young workers to acquire the skills they need to enter the workforce and get on the first rung of their career ladders. If those opportunities dry up, then some of our young workers can't access them. It will be a big problem in the labor market over the long term.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksHelping workers master the skills they need to succeed in the AI economy starts with getting better data. Existing labor statistics too often fail to tell us how occupations' tasks are changing, what skills are needed, which jobs will grow and shrink, and how workers move through the labor force because of AI. That is exactly why I introduced the AI Workforce PREPARE Act with Senator Hickenlooper, Senator Husted, and Senator Hassan.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksThe Census and Bureau of Labor Statistics need more expertise to analyze and forecast AI's impacts. They need to share more data with state and local governments and collaborate with private researchers. Billions of dollars of spending on workforce development programs rely on good data.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksBetter data is not a goal in itself. We need to make better decisions to beat China in the AI race. We also need to make sure small and medium-sized businesses don't get left behind while the biggest companies sprint ahead.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksAmerica will win the AI race with China by maximizing the capabilities of all of our companies and all of our workers. I look forward to hearing our witnesses' perspectives on exactly how we can accomplish that. But before we do, I want to recognize the ranking member, Senator Hickenlooper, for his opening statement.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksThank you, Chairman Banks, and thank you for holding this hearing. I want to thank our panel for making the time to be here and to provide testimony. Throughout human history, the world has experienced industrial revolutions that changed every sector of our economy.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksThe first industrial revolution was driven by steam power, the second by electricity and mass production, and the third by electronics. We are currently witnessing what some are calling a fourth industrial revolution. Technological advances in artificial intelligence and automation are changing how we create, how we communicate, how we work, and how we live.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksThese new tools, like the ones that came before, come with great power but also great responsibility. Small, medium, and large organizations alike are feeling the transformative effects of AI. But no one feels this revolution more acutely than our workers.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksToday's worker must navigate a dizzying maze of systems that are increasingly automated. Job applications, interviews, and human resource systems are shifting, and new AI-driven tools are being implemented across sectors with little to no training on how to use them. We need to ensure that workers are getting the training they need at every level.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksToday's workers have got to ask themselves, how am I going to keep up, or even better, strive and thrive in this AI ecosystem? That's what's driving this hearing today. As we see AI impacting the workforce in all these different ways, we need to work together on making sure we get the right path forward.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksWe envision a fully connected ecosystem where employers, educators, and workers are communicating with one another, sharing proven practices, forecasting needs, and developing strategies for overcoming these obstacles together. Our bill brings together regional partnerships of educators, industry, and intermediaries to provide credentials, apprenticeships, and other jobs and training that use AI. Because who knows better what a region needs than the workers, businesses, and educators in that region.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksWe've also been working on a bill with Chairman Banks, as he mentioned, and Senators Hassan and Husted, called the AI Workforce PREPARE Act, which would direct the Department of Labor to gather and analyze data to better inform us exactly how AI is impacting the labor market. Informed policy starts with good data. This work is going to provide essential insights into job transitions, layoffs, and future worker needs.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksThis is a monumental task ahead of us in this fourth industrial revolution. The capabilities of current technology are well beyond previous generations' wildest dreams. We need to partner with folks on the ground in our states who are innovating with AI and with workers and employers.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksWe need to shape worker policies to set striving Americans up for success. This is a moment in history when everyone's effort matters. The decisions that we make now are going to ensure that any child born today continues to have the highest probability of a healthy and happy life of any person born in the history of mankind.

Thank you all for your testimony and for taking part in our hearing today, and I yield back to the chair. Thank you, Ranking Member Hickenlooper. I would now like to welcome our first and only panel.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksFirst, we have Mr. Ken Clark, the President and CEO of EmployIndy, the workforce board for Indianapolis and Marion County, Indiana. Mr. Clark brings an impressive combination of expertise in workforce development, technology, and public administration.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksMr. Clark, you are now recognized for five minutes to deliver opening remarks.

Ken Clark, EmployIndy — remarks paraphrasedKen Clark noted that his background in both information technology and regional workforce administration frames automation primarily as an organizational question of hiring, training, and job structure. Based on EmployIndy's initiatives with central Indiana employers and job seekers, he observed that area businesses are incorporating AI tools to support existing employees rather than completely replacing human staff.

Ken Clark, EmployIndy — remarks paraphrasedClark warned that the immediate danger lies in the contraction of early-career positions. If entry-level developer roles and apprenticeships are sharply curtailed, organizations may lower near-term payroll costs while eroding the talent pipeline required for future senior professionals and supervisors. He urged lawmakers to support work-based learning programs that cultivate interpersonal communication and workplace judgment.

Ken Clark, EmployIndy — remarks paraphrasedClark emphasized that local workforce boards play a central role connecting area employers with education and training providers. Because technological adjustments differ across healthcare, manufacturing, logistics, and hospitality, he stressed that workforce interventions must be tailored to regional conditions. He expressed support for the AI Workforce PREPARE Act to provide community workforce boards with improved labor forecasting data.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksNext we have Ms. Carol Rogers, the director of the Indiana Business Research Center at Indiana University's Kelley School of Business. Ms. Rogers is an expert at making complex data useful for real-world decisions.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksMs. Rogers, you are now recognized for five minutes to deliver your opening statement.

Carol Rogers, Indiana Business Research Center — remarks paraphrasedCarol Rogers framed the labor discussion around established data alongside significant measurement uncertainties. She distinguished generative and autonomous AI tools from traditional automation, stressing that rapid commercial deployment requires refined analytical classifications to track how specific job functions evolve.

Carol Rogers, Indiana Business Research Center — remarks paraphrasedRogers outlined several emerging baseline metrics, citing a February 19, 2026 Census Bureau survey indicating that nearly 20 percent of domestic businesses utilize AI in at least one operational function. She also noted findings from Harvard's Project on the Workforce showing 62 percent of adults aged 18 to 64 utilize generative tools, accounting for approximately 6.5 percent of weekly work hours. In Indiana, research on occupational exposure indicates that internal task restructuring is currently far more evident than aggregate job losses.

Carol Rogers, Indiana Business Research Center — remarks paraphrasedRogers reported that state data in Indiana reveal declining job postings within AI-exposed fields alongside faster wage growth in those positions, reflecting shifting skill requirements rather than widespread job displacement. She emphasized that analysts require task-level occupational metrics, enhanced wage record linkages, and greater transparency into enterprise-level software deployment.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksThank you, Ms. Rogers. Dr. Liya Palagashvili, the director of the Labor Policy Project at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, is our next witness.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksDr. Palagashvili focuses on labor markets, regulation, and the institutions that shape work. Doctor, you are recognized for five minutes.

Liya Palagashvili, Mercatus Center at George Mason University — remarks paraphrasedLiya Palagashvili said the evidence so far does not show broad AI-driven job loss, even in occupations with high exposure. She emphasized that occupations consist of varied responsibilities, meaning researchers should examine how automation shifts recruitment, pay, and career progression instead of focusing only on vanishing job titles.

Liya Palagashvili, Mercatus Center at George Mason University — remarks paraphrasedPalagashvili noted that early-career hiring in highly exposed fields has slowed, though multiple factors likely contribute. She explained that data lags and coarse occupational categories make it difficult to isolate the role of technology from broader economic shifts or remote work trends.

Liya Palagashvili, Mercatus Center at George Mason University — remarks paraphrasedPalagashvili recommended connecting employer technology surveys directly to payroll and hiring records, tracking self-employment trends, and enriching state wage databases with specific job duties. Rather than attempting to predict a single economic scenario, she advised lawmakers to strengthen continuous data collection systems.

I would like to yield to Ranking Member Hickenlooper to introduce our next two guests. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, let me introduce Mr.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksJonathan Liebert, who serves as the CEO of the BBB of Southern Colorado, and Dr. Justin Heck, Senior Director of Research and Data Production at Opportunity@Work. Thank you both for being here and participating.

Jonathan Liebert, BBB of Southern Colorado — remarks paraphrasedJonathan Liebert described his approach to emerging technology as balanced and pragmatic. Drawing on regional training workshops delivered to more than 5,500 business owners, educators, and community leaders since 2025, he observed that initial anxiety declines once participants receive hands-on guidance regarding software capabilities and limitations.

Jonathan Liebert, BBB of Southern Colorado — remarks paraphrasedLiebert noted that the main hazard is uncritical adoption rather than reluctance to experiment. He described AI as useful for generating drafts and organizing possibilities, while stressing that users must verify outputs and remain fully accountable for final decisions.

Jonathan Liebert, BBB of Southern Colorado — remarks paraphrasedHe explained that smaller enterprises and nonprofit groups rarely have dedicated legal, cybersecurity, or procurement units, leaving them vulnerable to exaggerated vendor promises. Through BBB educational initiatives, his team promotes basic technology literacy, governance safeguards, and evaluation standards to protect staff and consumers from unnecessary risks.

Jonathan Liebert, BBB of Southern Colorado — remarks paraphrasedLiebert cautioned against allowing early-career positions to disappear without viable alternative training routes for inexperienced personnel. He emphasized that encouraging technological progress must be paired with structured training for instructors, students, and workplace supervisors.

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — remarks paraphrasedDr. Justin Heck observed that policy discussions often concentrate narrowly on job displacement versus augmentation, neglecting long-term upward mobility. He explained that occupational advancement relies on progression routes where individuals acquire foundational competencies in early roles to qualify for future positions.

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — remarks paraphrasedHeck presented research examining 130 million employment changes over a ten-year span, categorizing roles into entry-level positions, transitional bridge jobs, and higher-paying destination careers. He reported that roughly 60 million workers occupy transitional gateway positions, with nearly two-thirds possessing skills developed through practical experience, military service, community colleges, or apprenticeships rather than four-year college degrees.

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — remarks paraphrasedUsing customer support positions as an illustration, Heck explained that automation can impair career progression by eliminating intermediate bridge roles and removing the complex problem-solving opportunities where staff traditionally cultivate professional judgment.

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — remarks paraphrasedHeck urged lawmakers to support competency-based hiring, equalize tax incentives between workforce training and capital investments, adequately fund proven regional training initiatives, and reauthorize federal workforce legislation. He endorsed the AI Workforce PREPARE Act as a necessary step toward capturing how automation affects job mobility pipelines.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksThank you to each of you. Good opening statements. We will now move on to questioning. I retain my time for later, and I will yield five minutes for questions to Senator Marshall.

Sen. Roger Marshall — verbatim remarksThank you, Chairman. I'll let you all answer the same question here, and I'm looking for a 30 to 45-second answer so all of you can do it. I'm a big fan of community colleges and technical colleges.

Sen. Roger Marshall — verbatim remarksSo let's just assume there are a significant number of people, probably data-entry type people, who are going to lose their jobs to AI and need more training. They already got a bachelor's degree, right, and I don't think they necessarily need another one. What advice would you have for community colleges and technical colleges to help quickly retrain these people and pivot back in?

Ken Clark, EmployIndy — answer paraphrasedKen Clark stated that expanding Pell Grant eligibility for short-term workforce programs allows community and technical colleges to deliver targeted training without requiring multi-year degree commitments. He pointed out that institutions such as Ivy Tech and Vincennes University can adapt quickly when local businesses provide clear demand signals.

Carol Rogers, Indiana Business Research Center — answer paraphrasedCarol Rogers noted that state governments maintain existing displaced-worker assistance programs and employment projections. In Indiana, she referenced the state's priority occupations portal, which identifies well-paying local vacancies and aligns training recommendations with an individual's educational background and skill profile.

Liya Palagashvili, Mercatus Center at George Mason University — answer paraphrasedLiya Palagashvili said Congress is overlooking a straightforward tax adjustment: eliminating the tax code's preferential treatment of physical equipment over workforce upskilling. When businesses can write off machinery purchases more favorably than educational investments, she noted, tax policy inadvertently encourages automation ahead of employee retraining.

Jonathan Liebert, BBB of Southern Colorado — answer paraphrasedJonathan Liebert advised community colleges to leverage established educational facilities rather than building new programs from scratch. He recommended instructor training, deeper collaboration with regional businesses, and modular coursework that can adapt more rapidly than multi-year degree curricula.

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — answer paraphrasedJustin Heck recommended that retraining build on workers' existing sector knowledge rather than attempting to convert every displaced employee into a software developer. He underscored that business involvement is vital to ensure training aligns with documented hiring demand.

Sen. Roger Marshall — verbatim remarksThanks. A quick question for the chairman and ranking member to contemplate is this: if we're going to lose a lot of entry-level positions in accounting, how do you get experienced accountants and attorneys later if we fire all the entry-level accountants and attorneys? I'd be interested that we keep pursuing that answer too.

And I'll maintain my place and yield to Senator Baldwin for questions. Thank you. If I get to it, I have a very similar question to the one that you just posed for some of the panel, but I have a couple first.

Sen. Tammy Baldwin — verbatim remarksWisconsin is all too familiar with the disruption that comes when Washington makes the wrong decision or fails to plan ahead. So as we consider policy and regulation on AI, we have a responsibility to working men and women to get this right. Something we have heard today is that we must have access to the best data to understand how AI is changing the workplace and impacting workers.

Sen. Tammy Baldwin — verbatim remarksDr. Heck, and I think I want to ask Ms. Rogers the same question, one of the policy recommendations you alluded to in your testimony is improving data collection. What gaps exist in our current data, and what should we be doing differently to better measure and more precisely measure AI's impact on workers?

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — answer paraphrasedJustin Heck emphasized the need for more timely tracking of worker movements between occupations. He pointed out that multi-year publication lags in standard government datasets prevent lawmakers from observing real-time changes in job responsibilities and technology adoption.

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — answer paraphrasedHe added that connecting existing state-level administrative files is just as critical as launching fresh surveys. Integrating records already maintained across state agencies would enable analysts to study employment outcomes with far greater precision.

Carol Rogers, Indiana Business Research Center — answer paraphrasedCarol Rogers identified three primary analytical challenges. First, standard occupational codes fail to capture the intensity or specific nature of artificial intelligence utilization within job roles. Second, state longitudinal data systems that link educational and workforce histories remain underutilized for tracking technology transitions.

Carol Rogers, Indiana Business Research Center — answer paraphrasedRogers added that the third deficiency is limited empirical insight into internal corporate practices—including departmental adoption patterns, internal oversight policies, and task reallocation. She argued that evaluating labor impacts requires more direct measurement of employer-level operational changes.

Sen. Tammy Baldwin — verbatim remarksMr. Liebert, in your testimony you touched on how people can use AI as a crutch to replace critical thinking. While AI can be used as a tool to enhance our productivity, we have to ensure that workers are still given the opportunities to learn and gain the relevant skills needed to advance in their careers. For instance, if AI replaces all entry-level programmer jobs, how will those displaced human beings be ready for mid-level positions?

Sen. Tammy Baldwin — verbatim remarksAs employers adopt AI tools, what steps should they take to ensure that this technology complements their workforce rather than displaces workers and that employees have opportunities to develop new skills on the job?

Jonathan Liebert, BBB of Southern Colorado — answer paraphrasedJonathan Liebert responded that the impact on skill development depends on organizational choices. He warned that workers can produce polished AI-assisted output without understanding or being able to defend the reasoning behind it, though structured workflows can instead prompt employees to examine evidence and evaluate conclusions more rigorously.

Jonathan Liebert, BBB of Southern Colorado — answer paraphrasedLiebert emphasized the importance of teaching analytical habits. Organizations should train personnel to cross-examine initial automated responses, check underlying facts, and view conversational assistants as preliminary aides rather than definitive sources.

Sen. Jon Husted — verbatim remarksSenator Husted. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm glad we're holding this hearing today.

Sen. Jon Husted — verbatim remarksI spent most of my adult life working on economic development and workforce development issues in Ohio.

Sen. Jon Husted — verbatim remarksAI is about four years old, and since that time we are now at a point where the unemployment rate is almost as low as it's ever been in history. We have more jobs than any time in history. It doesn't seem to be having an impact on the number of jobs in the country right now, but it's certainly changing the nature of jobs in our country.

Sen. Jon Husted — verbatim remarksI remember just five years ago, if you had been to a local workforce development board meeting, how many conversations would you have had about coding as a great place for people to be? And now, not so much. I just read a Wall Street Journal article about $200,000-a-year electricians and OpenAI trying to gobble up every one of them it can to build data centers. So it changes fast.

Sen. Jon Husted — verbatim remarksI know from working through this my whole life that it's very hard for government or an agency or anybody to keep up with the pace of change in the economy and the nature of work. We have to help people navigate this on their own, and good data is one of the ways that we can do that. I went through a little experiment with my nephew a couple of weeks ago after he couldn't get into the Air Force but still wanted to do something in aviation and aerospace.

Sen. Jon Husted — verbatim remarksI walked him through how to use AI to find the companies in his region, the skills they needed, and where he could go get those skills. So it's a powerful tool in helping people navigate the job market in itself. You mentioned Workforce Pell, and in Ohio we also built something called TechCred so adults can earn in-demand credentials quickly when an employer sponsors them.

Sen. Jon Husted — verbatim remarksWe have to be faster in how we help people adjust to the changes in the workforce. The best way to do that is helping educators and employers talk to one another. Tell me your thoughts on how both this legislation and the data can help people make their own decisions, help them navigate the world, and get the educators and employers on the same page.

Ken Clark, EmployIndy — answer paraphrasedKen Clark explained that communication gaps between academic institutions and regional employers represent a primary challenge for workforce boards. He highlighted Indiana's integration of experiential learning into high school graduation requirements, enabling students to gain workplace familiarity before completing their education.

Ken Clark, EmployIndy — answer paraphrasedClark noted that Indiana's diploma pathways now incorporate 75 to 650 hours of structured work-based learning prior to graduation. He argued that combining classroom instruction with real-world work experience helps students adapt to labor market demands that can change substantially during a typical multi-year degree.

As Husted's time expired, Clark doubled down on shorter, incremental learning cycles that blend school and work, and Liebert joked that his own advice to his son had shifted from coding toward the skilled trades. The exchange captured the hearing's broader point that career navigation now has to move faster than old assumptions about which jobs look safe.

Sen. Maggie Hassan — verbatim remarksSenator Hassan. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member Hickenlooper for holding this hearing. And thank you to the witnesses for a really informative discussion.

Sen. Maggie Hassan — verbatim remarksI think it's really important that the benefits of AI flow to workers and not just the wealthiest among us. Senator Banks and I co-lead a bipartisan bill called the AI Workforce PREPARE Act. Among other things, it would help hold large corporations accountable by requiring companies to publicly disclose when they fire employees in mass layoffs in order to replace those employees with AI.

Sen. Maggie Hassan — verbatim remarksSo why is transparency in layoff decisions critical to our understanding of AI's impact on the workforce, and how can this transparency help in developing effective protections for workers?

Jonathan Liebert, BBB of Southern Colorado — answer paraphrasedJonathan Liebert noted that mandatory disclosure around workforce reductions would assist regional planning. Clear data regarding eliminated roles and affected personnel would allow community colleges and workforce agencies to tailor retraining initiatives to concrete employment needs.

Sen. Maggie Hassan — verbatim remarksSenators Young, Collins, Kaine, and I also have a bipartisan bill called the Gateways to Career Act that would fund local workforce partnerships to create and scale career pathway programs for training workers. By design, community-centered programs like this are nimble and responsive to local industry needs. What role do you see for career pathway programs in helping workers, both new and established, get the AI skills they need to succeed?

Ken Clark, EmployIndy — answer paraphrasedKen Clark stated that community-based pathway initiatives succeed because they are designed around specific regional economic needs rather than rigid national models. He emphasized that businesses, secondary schools, community colleges, and local chambers of commerce must collaborate directly to address shifting industry requirements.

Jonathan Liebert, BBB of Southern Colorado — answer paraphrasedJonathan Liebert observed that modern software can enhance productivity across firms and communities when built on a clear understanding of regional economic strengths. He argued that most localities already possess foundational training assets that require targeted support rather than complete restructuring.

Dr. Palagashvili, what specific data gaps at the federal level are the most time-sensitive for us to address? Thank you for the question, Senator.

Liya Palagashvili, Mercatus Center at George Mason University — answer paraphrasedLiya Palagashvili identified matching employer technology surveys with actual payroll records as the top priority, enabling direct comparisons between adopting and non-adopting enterprises. She observed that while government administrative files provide high-quality evidence, their reporting delays and separation from adoption metrics limit their immediate usefulness.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksThank you. I yield five minutes to myself. Mr. Clark, Indiana is the crossroads of America, middle America, and you work in central Indiana.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksWhat trends do we see that are specific maybe to where we come from, and do those trends lag the rest of the country or are they a pulse that the rest of the country should be paying attention to?

Ken Clark, EmployIndy — answer paraphrasedKen Clark emphasized the necessity of analyzing regional labor dynamics at a granular level. In Indiana, healthcare remains the largest employer, where automation is primarily relieving nursing staff of paperwork rather than replacing care providers. Conversely, sectors like logistics and hospitality face distinct hurdles, including inconsistent job definitions across competing employers.

Ken Clark, EmployIndy — answer paraphrasedClark explained that differing job descriptions hinder worker transitions across firms even without technological disruption. He argued that local workforce planners require clearer indicators regarding potential dislocation areas and transferable skills within regional labor markets.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksMs. Rogers, would you say those trends lag the rest of the country in a middle America, Rust Belt state? Are those trends that are following the rest of the country, or should the rest of the country be looking at the trends that they see coming out of Indiana?

Carol Rogers, Indiana Business Research Center — answer paraphrasedCarol Rogers observed that Midwestern adoption rates occupy a middle tier rather than trailing significantly behind national averages. While certain coastal areas initially registered higher business utilization, several Midwestern and Plains states are experiencing rapid uptake and in specific metrics have surpassed traditional tech centers like California.

Carol Rogers, Indiana Business Research Center — answer paraphrasedRogers stated that many enterprises lack reliable information about peer adoption models and sound governance practices. She noted that workforce preparation must be accompanied by executive education to help business leaders accurately assess technological capabilities and operational limits.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksMr. Clark, can you talk a little bit more about what your member businesses are asking for from you? What do they need?

Ken Clark, EmployIndy — answer paraphrasedClark noted that employers consistently seek candidates with practical baseline readiness, emphasizing punctuality, interpersonal communication, teamwork, and foundational familiarity with workplace expectations. As automation raises performance benchmarks, he observed that early experiential learning becomes increasingly essential for workforce entrants.

Sen. Tim Kaine — verbatim remarksSenator Kaine. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Senator Hickenlooper, and what a great panel. Dr.

Sen. Tim Kaine — verbatim remarksPalagashvili, I'm really glad that you mentioned the disequity in the tax code where we reward companies for investments in capital but not in human capital training. Senator Warner has long had a bill to try to equalize the depreciation schedules for those kinds of investments so that we don't advantage capital investments over human capital training investments.

Sen. Tim Kaine — verbatim remarksOne of the things I have been grappling with is Mr. Clark's statement at the beginning about knocking out the first jobs on the ladder so that people can't learn what they need to climb it. It matches up with some recent employment data suggesting that unemployment is ticking up among young adults even while other groups are improving. The New York Fed just did a study that did not yet find AI was a big generator of that, but it did find remote work was a significant reason because firms would rather hire people they don't have to mentor.

Sen. Tim Kaine — verbatim remarksSo I'm very worried about this youth effect. Nothing would be worse than a society where young people, especially those starting off their careers, are unemployed or underemployed. We have to think that through.

Sen. Tim Kaine — verbatim remarksI was thinking about an area of work where young people will never just be pushed aside by AI, and I thought of the military. We're never just going to say we only need sergeants and we don't need privates anymore. The military is extremely intentional about personnel and training, and the branches are trying to incorporate AI into that training.

Sen. Tim Kaine — verbatim remarksA system-wide study of the way the military uses AI for that very entry-level, 18-year-old recruit to advance in skill could be a fertile field of study. Does anybody want to offer a thought about how we should focus on the needs of young people so that, whether it is remote work or the first rung of the ladder disappearing, we're not depressing the hopes of young people that they are going to have meaningful careers?

Carol Rogers, Indiana Business Research Center — answer paraphrasedCarol Rogers noted that demographic trends interact closely with technological adoption. As demographic aging slows the inflow of young labor market entrants, automation could help buffer localized staffing shortfalls. She encouraged lawmakers to look beyond professional services and construction trades by also considering middle-skill positions, regional demand patterns, and creative occupations.

Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester — verbatim remarksThank you, Chairman Banks, as well as Ranking Member Hickenlooper, for allowing me to wave onto this committee. The conversation is important and riveting and timely. I must say, I'm a person who is generally very hopeful, and the conversations around AI today are a lot fear-based.

Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester — verbatim remarksA lot of people have concerns about losing their jobs, and artists have concerns about there being a soulless artist out there making more money than people who actually have souls. As a former Secretary of Labor from Delaware, I was around when workforce investment boards were first established under WIA before WIOA. I have so many questions for you in so little time.

Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester — verbatim remarksOne question that I have for Mr. Clark, which I'll come back to, is whether workforce investment boards need to change in light of these technological shifts. Dr. Palagashvili, I have a question for you.

Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester — verbatim remarksWe've all been talking about the gaps in the data, and I'm curious whether there are sources of data you use right now to help predict and plan that we do not want to stop collecting.

Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester — verbatim remarksWhat are we getting right and don't want to stop in terms of data collection?

Liya Palagashvili, Mercatus Center at George Mason University — answer paraphrasedLiya Palagashvili emphasized that existing federal surveys remain vital foundational resources for economic research. She highlighted core instruments such as the Current Population Survey, Business Formation Statistics, Annual Business Survey, and Business Trends and Outlook Survey, while renewing her call to incorporate occupational granularity into state payroll files and quarterly indicators.

Liya Palagashvili, Mercatus Center at George Mason University — answer paraphrasedShe highlighted legislative proposals like the Results Act aimed at embedding occupational identifiers into state unemployment wage records. In her view, enhancing administrative data depth works in tandem with sustaining traditional statistical surveys.

Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester — verbatim remarksLast year, Black women experienced one of the steepest one-year employment declines in the past quarter century. Last week, we marked Black Women's Equal Pay Day. Analysis from the National Partnership for Women and Families found that women make up over half of workers in the most AI-vulnerable occupations, with women of color making up nearly a third of workers in those jobs.

Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester — verbatim remarksDr. Heck, in your testimony you focus on worker mobility. What can you share with us about how the economic mobility of women and people of color in the workforce might be impacted by AI?

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — answer paraphrasedJustin Heck explained that workers differ significantly in their ability to absorb involuntary job loss and demonstrate their capabilities in new fields. Because intermediate stepping-stone positions are heavily staffed by women and workers of color, disruption to these transitional roles disproportionately impacts populations with fewer financial and institutional buffers.

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — answer paraphrasedHeck cited demographic data showing that women comprise 93 percent of administrative assistants and secretaries, workers of color represent 49 percent of customer service staff, and 46 percent of Black women earning at least median wages without four-year degrees hold transitional gateway jobs. He argued that these figures demonstrate why protecting career ladders requires systemic policy intervention rather than leaving adjustment solely to individual employees.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksThank you, Mr. Chair. And again, I'll thank each of you. What a great panel and so diverse and so thoughtful.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksI do think it's worth pointing out, Senator Banks, that Indiana is right among the top in terms of innovation.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksTo hear that you're going to require 75 hours of on-the-job training as part of the high school degree is striking. We worked very hard in Colorado to get rid of the college degree requirement for over half the workers in state government, but it's a battle. I love that several of you have alluded to this arc of a lifetime of learning skills and that it has to be explicit.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksLet me ask the first question, Dr. Heck. I was talking to a lawyer back in Denver who thinks there is going to be a real issue if you don't have enough first-rung lawyers. How are they going to get the training they need to become seasoned professionals?

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksBut it's also possible, and I guess not just Dr. Heck but all of you, that if we ask a smaller number of young lawyers to learn AI and support more senior lawyers, they may actually grow faster. Is that plausible from your perspective?

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — answer paraphrasedJustin Heck agreed that accelerated skill acquisition is achievable depending on the profession and specific duties involved. In legal practice, for instance, software tools can assist junior associates with legal research and document analysis, enabling them to contribute effectively earlier in their careers.

Carol Rogers, Indiana Business Research Center — answer paraphrasedCarol Rogers remarked that comparable dynamics could develop across medicine, accounting, and legal services as routine overhead decreases. Lower operational expenses could expand public access to professional services, provided efficiency gains do not compromise the human expertise essential to those disciplines.

Liya Palagashvili, Mercatus Center at George Mason University — answer paraphrasedLiya Palagashvili noted that software tools can simultaneously eliminate certain routine steps, assist complex responsibilities, and elevate total output, though specific outcomes vary widely by industry. She cautioned against assuming any uniform template would fit every line of work.

Jonathan Liebert, BBB of Southern Colorado — answer paraphrasedJonathan Liebert said context remains the decisive ingredient. He argued that even highly capable AI still depends on human context, verification, supervision, and final judgment before its outputs are acted upon.

Justin Heck, Opportunity@Work — answer paraphrasedHeck cautioned that automating difficult early-career tasks can remove the slow practice through which workers develop judgment and professional skill. He added that supervising continuous automated workflows creates significant cognitive strain and early-career fatigue, even when top-line output numbers improve.

Ranking Member John Hickenlooper — verbatim remarksLast thing I'll leave: we don't have data measuring how well some people are going to adapt to AI and what productivity they actually provide once the tools arrive. Some are going to take a giant leap, whereas others using the same tool are not going to use it as well. I think we're going to have to measure that to really begin to predict what we need to be ready for.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksThank you to the ranking member. Thank you to all of our panelists and guests and to our staff for arranging this great hearing, a great conversation. I thought it was a very productive committee hearing today, but I am biased because I chaired it.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksBut if there are no further questions, the panel is now excused. I ask unanimous consent for statements from the Society for Human Resource Management, the Taxpayers Protection Alliance, and the Sutherland Institute to be entered into the hearing record. Without objection.

Chairman Jim Banks — verbatim remarksFor any senator wishing to ask additional questions, questions for the record will be due at 5 p.m. on Wednesday, August 12th. Thank you again to all of you for joining us today. The subcommittee is now adjourned.